What aircraft to build time in

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Scott Miller, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Scott Miller

    Scott Miller Filing Flight Plan

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    I am in the process of planning out an airplane purchase and need some advise regarding what looks better for insurance companies and prepares me for as smooth of a transition as possible. I have narrowed my ideal plane for my mission down to 3-4 different makes/models. A couple are entry level retracts. I have no retract time. I have access to an Arrow but it costs about 50% more an hour than my current 172 rental. My question is this: Would it save me any money to go ahead and transition to the arrow in hopes the insurance would view that favorably when I do purchase?

    I am a low time pilot (150hrs) and will fly 30-50 hours over the next year before I purchase.

    Thanks for the guidance and let me know if I have left out any information.
     
  2. Glen R

    Glen R Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Are you instrument rated? Retract or not insurance companies like to see that.
     
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  3. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If you solely want to build time, get the slowest plane out there. Insurance is going to favor you getting an IR vs the Arrow hours. By the time I got around to the Comanche, I only had the complex hours for my Commercial and CFI, which wasn't much, and the insurance company didn't care, but they liked the IR rating. (Also the commercial and CFI did nothing to drop the insurance on the Cherokee when I had it)
     
  4. Scott Miller

    Scott Miller Filing Flight Plan

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    I currently do not have my IR. Was in hopes of getting it with the plane I was going to be in for a while and get my IR in it. Makes sense though and thanks for the guidance. I know it depends on the airplane, but let’s assume I am looking at a sub 100k (Arrow, M20C, 182rg), are we talking a $1k difference annually in insurance cost with the IR rating or a few hundred dollars difference?

    Thanks!
     
  5. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Depends on airframe. When I was non-IR the Comanche was going to be 3000ish I think? (it's been a while). I'm in the 1000 range right now. For a fixed gear airplane a couple hundred bucks.
     
  6. Scott Miller

    Scott Miller Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks EdFred. Substantial difference!!
     
  7. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Based on my limited experience, the insurance company is going to care most about experience relevant to the plane you own, plus certain advanced ratings. Why not buy now and build time in your plane?
     
  8. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Spending that 30-50 hours getting an instrument rating in a 172 will lower your rates way more than renting an arrow to go get burgers. Even at that, first year insurance is going to cost more until you get time in type assuming you buy something complex.
     
  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    If your building time ,slow is good. The 172 will save you money now. I used my 172 for my IR. Then bought an arrow. Total hours is one of the parameters the insurance companies use.
     
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  10. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A couple hundred bucks for full coverage, you mean a couple hundred less right?

    To the OP, just get a arrow or PA24 or whatever now, first installment might be a little high, the next round of insurance should go way down.
     
  11. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    I bought my M20-C with 62 hours in 172s; at my first renewal, I had almost exactly 100 Mooney hours, and my rates fell by 50%. Next renewal, no change; then picked up Instruments and insurance fell 30%. So 100 hours Time in Type [Complex] saved many more dollars than adding on Instrument Rating.

    Insurance Premium = XX [exorbitant premium for wet-ticket owner of complex plane]
    100 Hour TiT = 0.5XX [savings = 0.5XX, or 50% of first year premium]
    Instruments = 0.7 x 0.5XX = 0.35XX [savings = 0.5XX - 0.35XX = 0.15XX, or 15% of first year premium]

    YMMV, the insurance market is constantly shifting and changing.
     
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  12. 150Driver

    150Driver Filing Flight Plan

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    "100 Hour TiT = 0.5XX [savings = 0.5XX, or 50% of first year premium]"

    I guess my insurance next year will be 350 bucks!
     
  13. texasclouds

    texasclouds Line Up and Wait

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    If I remember correctly, Avemco told me (50hr pilot) was 10% discount after 50 hrs, another 10% after 100 hrs, then 10% at one year renewal. Assuming no damage. Paid quarterly so each payment will be lower if you are logging hours. More discount with instrument rating and wings program participation.

    Trike needed simple checkout before solo coverage. Tail dragger needs 10 hrs dual in type before solo coverage.
     
  14. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    The simpler your plane, the lower the premiums and probably smaller premium changes. I'm now paying ~$900 with Instrument Rating and > 800 hours in my Mooney. I'd be surprised if there's much of a change in simple Cessna premiums at 100 hours . . . .
     
  15. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    The 182rg seems like an expensive (but comfortable :)) time builder. By expensive I mean fuel vs hours flown - not insurance. A straight leg 182 will also be expensive w/r to fuel burn vs hours flown. If you are a big dude or know most of your time building is grass strips, mountain flying and actually hauling 4 people then the 182 seems to make some sense (W&B).
     
  16. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you want the best possible options and rates for insurance on a complex single, both the instrument rating and retract time will help you. If you can rent what you plan to own, then you'd be building time in type as well.

    If I were in your shoes, and you wanted to continue renting for 50 hours in the next year and then buy the new airplane, I would rent that Arrow and get my instrument rating in it. Then, you'd have both 50 hours of retract time AND the instrument rating, and you'll have a much easier time getting insurance and you'll get lower rates.