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RyanB

RyanB

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Ryan
Not sure if we've covered this one here or not.

This guy better be counting his lucky stars after that one..

 
Nope. Ain't falling' for that shet again! I told you.
 
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I was cringing on that last turn close to the ground. Seemed a bit slow for that steep of a bank but I guess he still had some speed in reserve.
 
Velocity173 said:
I was cringing on that last turn close to the ground. Seemed a bit slow for that steep of a bank but I guess he still had some speed in reserve.
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If you find the original account from years ago - the pilot was trying everything he could think of to get out of the unintended flat spin and just managed to get semi in control after the engine quit just before hitting a fence on the landing.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/26-turn-flat-spin-in-a-tipsy-nipper.108197/
 
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why (a) the engine stopped in the first place, and (b) the prop stopped? I'm guessing the answer to (a) is fuel line unporting due to the unusual attitude, but why did the prop stop? Quite a bad turn of events in a plane like the Nipper that lacks a starter.
 
azure said:
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know why (a) the engine stopped in the first place, and (b) the prop stopped? I'm guessing the answer to (a) is fuel line unporting due to the unusual attitude, but why did the prop stop? Quite a bad turn of events in a plane like the Nipper that lacks a starter.
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I suspect the flat spin wasn't producing enough airflow to keep the prop spinning. Which is why it's hard to get enough airflow over the control surfaces to get out of it.
 
jsstevens said:
I suspect the flat spin wasn't producing enough airflow to keep the prop spinning. Which is why it's hard to get enough airflow over the control surfaces to get out of it.
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Maybe, but even once he got out of the spin, it looked like the prop was still stuck motionless.
 
azure said:
Maybe, but even once he got out of the spin, it looked like the prop was still stuck motionless.
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Maybe the spin forces starved the oil? That seems far fetched though.
 
Seemed like he went over a good wide stretch of road, but I'd imagine his mental gyros were spinning pretty good after recovering from that spin.
 
These things have fuselage fuel, so should not have been an unporting issue. Wood props can quit during spins, especially with the reduced airflow through the prop of a flattened spin. The pilot finally managed to stumble across the correct inputs for recovering a flat spin most efficiently - inspin aileron. After that many rotations his inner ear was too spun up to fly straight, which is the reason for the drunk looking landing. This airplane just happened to have quirky spin characteristics that caused it to automatically flatten after fully developing. Be careful spinning airplanes that don't have a wide knowledge base and track record on spin characteristics. Airplanes designed for acro don't have this problem.
 
whifferdill said:
The pilot finally managed to stumble across the correct inputs for recovering a flat spin most efficiently - inspin aileron. After that many rotations his inner ear was too spun up to fly straight, which is the reason for the drunk looking landing. This airplane just happened to have quirky spin characteristics that caused it to automatically flatten after fully developing. Be careful spinning airplanes that don't have a wide knowledge base and track record on spin characteristics. Airplanes designed for acro don't have this problem.
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Inspin aileron as in applying aileron in the direction of the spin rotation? My assumption has always been to try and apply and take away power in attempt to gain some airflow over the horizontal stab and get some elevator control to get it pushed nosed down (although that wouldn't be possible here). Might be incorrect though.
 
If my mind hasn't failed me too much, this guy was lucky that there were people on the ground that got to him quickly and lifted the plane enough so he could get out. Trapped in a plane that has a canopy that needs to be lifted to get out.....
 
Ryanb said:
Inspin aileron as in applying aileron in the direction of the spin rotation?
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Yes
If you are in a flat or accelerated spin, you typically need to convert back to a conventional spin to recover. So, applying aileron in the direction of the spin (inspin) is one thing you need to do.

My assumption has always been to try and apply and take away power in attempt to gain some airflow over the horizontal stab and get some elevator control to get it pushed nosed down (although that wouldn't be possible here). Might be incorrect though.
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Yup, just might be incorrect. Might be a good way to spin all the way into the ground. Depends on the airplane - some like to spin, some tend to recover themselves no matter how hard you try to do the wrong things like forward stick and adding power.

P A R E. In that order.

Things you don't want to do are pushing the stick forward before stopping the rotation with the rudder (accelerated spin), applying ailerons in an attempt to level the wings (flat spin), or adding power (accelerates and flattens). In a 172 you might get away with it. In a Pitts not so much.

Examples:
 
azure said:
Maybe, but even once he got out of the spin, it looked like the prop was still stuck motionless.
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Get slow enough and the prop will stop. It takes a LOT of speed to get it moving again without a starter.

As an example - in a Cessna 172 - if you pull the mixture you will have to damn near stall it to get it slow enough for the prop to stop. To get the prop moving again with air alone requires damn near Vne.
 
Ryanb said:
My assumption has always been to try and apply and take away power in attempt to gain some airflow over the horizontal stab and get some elevator control to get it pushed nosed down (although that wouldn't be possible here). Might be incorrect though.
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First of all, if you're in a situation where you think you are (or actually are) applying proper spin recovery inputs with no success, you either don't know what you're doing, or you have just become a test pilot in an airplane that's likely unsuitable for this. At this point the outcome of adding power in an effort to finally recover the spin is unpredictable. As already mentioned, it all depends on the airplane, what you're doing, and even which direction you're spinning. Combined with the correct inputs, power may help, or it may aggravate the situation. Aerobatic pilots doing deliberate and controlled flat spins in aerobatic aircraft maintain full power for quicker recovery, but I wouldn't care to try this in a Cirrus or Tomahawk.

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Things you don't want to do are pushing the stick forward before stopping the rotation with the rudder (accelerated spin), applying ailerons in an attempt to level the wings (flat spin), or adding power (accelerates and flattens). In a 172 you might get away with it. In a Pitts not so much.
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Each aircraft type is different, and even among the same type, there's an entire matrix of spin types (upright/inverted/left/right/power on/power off) that can behave slightly differently. In the case of a plain vanilla upright power off spin that is accelerated with forward stick, a Pitts will recover just fine by applying opposite rudder from this condition (EDIT: for neutral elevator at least - don't remember trying this with full forward stick). But if you're doing a full power inverted flat spin and pull the stick fully aft first, and then apply opposite rudder, recovery would eventually happen in mine, but was much slower and not nearly the quickest route to recovery. Some aircraft will not recover from an accelerated stick position due to rudder blanking.
 
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