What a load of Dyspeptic Dog Doodoo

poadeleted1

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I used to think SWA had it together somewhat. Now I may have to rething that. Got to see the midnight weather for TF Green..... COULD NOT LAND? That's scary.

Southwest Planes Turn Around Minutes From Green

Southwest Says Planes Could Not Land Without Air Traffic Control


POSTED: 6:29 pm EDT May 16, 2006
UPDATED: 8:34 pm EDT May 16, 2006

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WARWICK, R.I. -- Two Southwest Airlines flights left Baltimore Monday night bound for Rhode Island, but it was just the beginning of a back-and-forth odyssey for dozens of passengers.


NBC 10's Audrey Laganas reported that the planes turned around in flight just before midnight. The passengers said the pilots told them they were turning back because there was no one in the control tower at T.F. Green Airport.


The stranded passengers were so mad, they called NBC 10. (Always the best move. Call the unbiased press)

NBC 10 was waiting when they landed Tuesday morning.


"It was so sad, and we were treated like cattle," said Michelle Harvey, who was flying home from Baltimore with her mother. (Hey Michelle: "MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Don't fly SWA. Pay more on AA or someone and see if it's better.)


"And then when we were flying, the pilot got on. He sounded greatly distressed. He said, 'There's no one at the tower in Providence. We have to go back.' We were about 10 minutes out. Ten or 15 minutes out," Harvey said.


The passengers had to camp out overnight at the airport in Baltimore.

Passenger Jillian Costa shot home video of the ordeal.


"This guy right here," Costa said, talking about the video, "he slept in the corner with an oxygen mask on. It was terrible, with a piece of newspaper underneath him."


Costa was traveling with an infant, and she wasn't the only one.

"I had no formula. Nothing. He's been in the same diaper since 1:15 this morning," Costa said. (Poor Planning Mom. Always carry a clean nappy and a bottle or two for emergencies. Wait, the company owes you that.)


"At one point, I needed something to mix her formula with and it took them forever to even give me hot water," passenger Fatima Andrade said.


The passengers finally boarded a plane at 6:15 a.m., but their ordeal didn't end there.


"Seven o'clock comes, still no pilot. They said, 'Well, he's stuck in traffic.'" Harvey said. "Quarter of 8, we were still waiting. So, a bunch of us asked for a supervisor. He came on and said, 'I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.' So we said, 'Can you pull another pilot from another plane,' which is what they eventually did." (I can see it...Southwest looking for any pilot to fly 737 to Providence, please report to the SW ticket desk. We will give you a free full fare ticket for helping us)


"The part that frightened me the most was last night when we were flying a plane load full of people ... going blindly into the night to an airport where there was nobody in the control tower," Jackie Heon said. "How bad is that?" (Ooooooh Nooooooooo...blindly into the night! No one in the tower? Oh Nooooooooooooooooooo Mr. Sluggo)


One of the planes tried to land in Rhode Island, but when the approach failed, the pilot flew back to Baltimore.


The control tower at T.F. Green closes at midnight, and a spokeswoman from Southwest Airlines said the airline did request that it remain open.

"We made the request for both flights for the tower to stay open, and the local tower refused. Once they refused, we had no choice but to return back to Baltimore because we need the guidance of air traffic controllers to land in the weather conditions that were present," spokeswoman Whitney Eichinger said.


A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said based on control tower recordings, Southwest's version of events is "not true."


"Southwest made a decision to return to Baltimore after the pilot attempted to make a landing ... [and] missed his approach," spokesman Jim Peters said. "Based on conversations, it was not necessary for the tower to be open when that plane landed."


Peters said it is possible for flights to land without someone being present in the control tower. (Possible, but oh so dangerous!!!)


Southwest said it tried to find hotels for the passengers, but they were full.


The airline said it will be sending an individual letter of apology to each passenger.
Copyright 2006 by turnto10.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
I don't know what the actual weather was, but the Cat-II minimimus at TF Green are not available when the tower is closed.
Same with Cat-III.
 
wsuffa said:
I don't know what the actual weather was, but the Cat-II minimimus at TF Green are not available when the tower is closed.
Same with Cat-III.

OK, so you land at Logan. As usual, the press is on the case!!! See attached for wx. 5 miles vis and 5 mph winds does not sound bad.....but then I was not in the LF seat.
 

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F.W. Birdman said:
OK, so you land at Logan. As usual, the press is on the case!!! See attached for wx. 5 miles vis and 5 mph winds does not sound bad.....but then I was not in the LF seat.

I'd bet that SWA doesn't have it in their ops-specs for anything other than an emergency landing. I suppose they could have done ISP.

I don't see the data for the night of the 15th right now, but I do know PVD can go below Cat-1, recall the near runway collision a few years ago?
 
SWA's op-specs may prohibit landing at an airport when the tower is closed - who would call out services in the event of an emergency, etc - is the fire station still awake?

As for the decision to turn around and go back to BWI, that would have been made in coordination with their dispatchers - there are lots of reasons why BOS or MHT or BDL (other SWA-served airports nearby) may have not worked.
 
Ah, I found it.

The flight in question was late on the evening of 5/15.

THe METAR for 11:15 that evening shows:

Wind Calm, Visibility 0.2 miles, Fog, 93% Rel Humidity, Temp 13, Dew Point 12.

That visibility is in the Cat II/III range, so landing there would be prohibited with the tower closed.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Boston wasn't much better, with zero temp-dewpoint spread, 0.5 mi reported vis, and light winds. And with the zero spread, I wouldn't be surprised if it were to go lower. Not my choice for an alternate.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Boston is not a SWA airport, at all, so they'd have no place to park and no ground crew to arrange ground transport.

I'm not surprised at the decision to go back to BWI... ISP and PHL are closer, but still not close enough to get folks home that night.
 
and if the tower's closed, you may not have "approved" weather reporting, now that I think of it.

You're right about BOS - I was thinking of MHT.

BWI is a BIG hub for them, so it's the best choice in terms of parking, ground staff, etc.
 
The IAP states that "CAT II Minimums NA when Tower Closed"

Case closed. They were being (1) legal, and (2) safe.

Hell of a reason to get vilified.
 
Too bad the press presented it the way they did. I agree with KP on the reporting.

I know I would have been PO'd if I were on the plane... but I also suspect that SWA did a far better job of explaining things than certain other carrier's flights that I've been on....
 
wsuffa said:
Too bad the press presented it the way they did. I agree with KP on the reporting.

I know I would have been PO'd if I were on the plane... but I also suspect that SWA did a far better job of explaining things than certain other carrier's flights that I've been on....

Like I said earlier - from the left front seat it's all different. That said, my beef was more with the press and the pax. Flying has a risk, even on a clear sunny day. Take the train. Take the bus. Drive yourself. And the press is out to make a story out of a relatively innocuous event. Safety first. But either way, it was a story. Angry pax or flaming heap. A story!!!!
 
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