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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Ryanb, Oct 28, 2017.
Abort the landing and then...???
Looks like a ****ed up T&G, not paying attention to the climbout, letting it roll, and then....crash. Dumb asses.
Didn’t put in enough power to climb out of the go-around. Could be gear and flaps didn’t let him climb. My airplane climbs like a dog with the gear hanging out. Im wondering if some vegetation got into a control surface freezing the controls into that last bank and stall.
Not nearly enough right rudder on the go, then after getting straight, they didn't climb . . .
What a dingus. Why not just turn back over the runway...
Not enough rudder when the IP or whom ever that is in the right seat applied full power. Then, it appears the IP pulled power in an attempt to go back to the runway. Then, when it seemed they weren't going to make the runway, he applied full power again, but with too much of a nose up attitude and too slow, resulting in a spin.
darn trees came out of nowhere!
That’s what I was thinking. You can see the instructor or whoever the zoid in the right seat is, to be monkeying around with the power as they were approaching the trees. Didn’t seem to phase them.
Why even turn back at all? No altitude to make any kind of turn back in either location. Dingus is right!
I mean right when it happened. He went full power and turned towards the trees expecting to be able to climb over them instead of correcting back to the right.
Yeah I don’t know. Not sure why they even elected to go that direction. If they were just aborting, then keep it a closed pattern and go around. Safest thing to do in that situation.
Not sure it was a spin. Maybe got into an accelerated stall though.
whats that big word mean, he can't get it up or sumptin?
I was suggesting that it might’ve just been the incipient phase of a spin, but maybe he couldn’t get it up...didn’t look like either of them could get it up....
Looks like there wasn't even an attempt to counter with right stick. At the end, the guy in the right seat grabbed the stick and appeared to pull it full aft.
Yeh I knew what ya meant. But yeah, level that thing and climb!
maybe they have left turning tendencies
Natural born NASCAR drivers I reckon
I believe ya got it!
Does anyone know if they survived?
That's not the way to do it
You don’t say....
This aircraft has two throttles, each pilot having his left hand on their respective throttle. It can't be certain that the instructor is the one that pulled the throttle back inexplicably, but it does look like it. What is sure is that the instructor didn't correct the student's poor exercise of positive aircraft control.
Looked like there might have been a little confusion as to who was flying the plane too. They were looking at each other as the guy in the right seat pulled the power after the go around and the one in the left seat seemed to loosen his grip on the stick before finally just letting go of it all together as they stalled and rolled over. That looks a lot like an accelerated stall (finally recognized their proximity to the trees and a panic pull by the guy in the right seat) with not enough right rudder to keep the wings level.
As my old DO used to say during the mandatory quarterly flying safety briefing kabuki: "The thing about SA is, if you don't have it....you won't miss it. Any questions?"
I have seen this video somewhere else, and I think I remember reading that they were killed.
Just read through the comments and somebody said the instructor passed and the student was in intensive care and that was written over a year ago.
This video made the rounds some time ago, as others have pointed out.
Plenty to criticize, but I think flight instructors may tend to have a slightly more generous view as to what happened.
Why? Students may not fully realize how instructors have to sometimes walk a fine line: grab the controls too soon, and the student does not get to see the consequences of his or her actions or inactions. Too late, and the result may be a violation, damage to the airplane, or rarely an actual accident.
Here, it looked like the instructor was loathe to take over, possibly verbally coaxing his student to come back to the right, who appeared to be allowing the left-turning tendencies of the plane drag them towards the trees. I think the instructor may have assumed to the end that they could power themselves out of trouble and get over the trees. With tragic results.
Lots of speculation, of course, but that remains my overall impression.
There are times to be patient and let a student learn from his/her mistakes. That was not one of them. The minute they turned significantly off runway heading I would have taken the controls and debriefed what just happened.
I only watched it once and I didn't get a good feel for what was happening, but there didn't appear to be any sense of urgency. It would be nice to know more.
That goes without saying.
Just trying to understand what happened, without demonizing the instructor.
There have been a handful of times I have waited too long to take control. Which fortunately never resulted in more than embarrassment or minor damage*. It happens.
*An excursion off the runway at Opa Locka West (no damage), a prop strike at the same airport, damage to the bottom of the rudder on my Citabria from the tailwheel hitting it, a lightly dragged wingtip in a crosswind, also in the Citabria. That's over about 4 decades and just over 4,200 hours of dual given. It’s hard allowing things to go far enough to make your point, but not so far that things get out of control.
And yet another pice of evidence supporting my "no camera" rule in my airplane. When I ball it up the damn thing's not winding up on Youtube.
I can completely appreciate that thought. But in this case, it seems that control should have been asserted following the initial bank to the left so close to the ground after the touch and go. If the student didn't straighten that up immediately, and then climb and/or bring it back to run way heading, I think that called for asserting control immediately. Of course, I say this as a non-instructor, so take that for what it's worth.
I agree with ya there. Right at the end it looks like one of the souls on board is exhaling for the last time.
Yeah, the guy in the right seat was killed.
Wow...kind of a disturbing video...surprised it’s up on YouTube.