What’s going on here?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Ryanb, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Abort the landing and then...???
     
  2. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    20,965
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Looks like a ****ed up T&G, not paying attention to the climbout, letting it roll, and then....crash. Dumb asses.
     
    RDUPilot likes this.
  3. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    24,790
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    Didn’t put in enough power to climb out of the go-around. Could be gear and flaps didn’t let him climb. My airplane climbs like a dog with the gear hanging out. Im wondering if some vegetation got into a control surface freezing the controls into that last bank and stall.
     
  4. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,785
    Location:
    Eclectic, AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Hank
    Not nearly enough right rudder on the go, then after getting straight, they didn't climb . . .
     
  5. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    20,965
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
  6. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,164
    Location:
    Tupelo, MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ktup-flyer
    What a dingus. Why not just turn back over the runway...
     
    CC268 likes this.
  7. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,107
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    Not enough rudder when the IP or whom ever that is in the right seat applied full power. Then, it appears the IP pulled power in an attempt to go back to the runway. Then, when it seemed they weren't going to make the runway, he applied full power again, but with too much of a nose up attitude and too slow, resulting in a spin.
     
  8. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    8,909
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    darn trees came out of nowhere!
     
    Skyrys62 and RDUPilot like this.
  9. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    That’s what I was thinking. You can see the instructor or whoever the zoid in the right seat is, to be monkeying around with the power as they were approaching the trees. Didn’t seem to phase them.
     
  10. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Why even turn back at all? No altitude to make any kind of turn back in either location. Dingus is right!
     
    mscard88 likes this.
  11. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,164
    Location:
    Tupelo, MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ktup-flyer
    I mean right when it happened. He went full power and turned towards the trees expecting to be able to climb over them instead of correcting back to the right.
     
  12. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Yeah I don’t know. Not sure why they even elected to go that direction. If they were just aborting, then keep it a closed pattern and go around. Safest thing to do in that situation.
     
  13. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    20,965
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Not sure it was a spin. Maybe got into an accelerated stall though.
     
  14. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Incipient maybe?
     
  15. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    20,965
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    whats that big word mean, he can't get it up or sumptin? :confused:
     
  16. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    I was suggesting that it might’ve just been the incipient phase of a spin, but maybe he couldn’t get it up...didn’t look like either of them could get it up....
     
    Velocity173 likes this.
  17. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    9,107
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    Looks like there wasn't even an attempt to counter with right stick. At the end, the guy in the right seat grabbed the stick and appeared to pull it full aft.:confused:
     
  18. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    20,965
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Yeh I knew what ya meant. But yeah, level that thing and climb!
     
  19. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,632
    Location:
    Owensboro, KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skyrys62
    maybe they have left turning tendencies

    Natural born NASCAR drivers I reckon
     
    Briar Rabbit and mscard88 like this.
  20. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Messages:
    20,965
    Location:
    Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    I believe ya got it! :thumbsup:
     
  21. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,497
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    Does anyone know if they survived?
     
  22. danhagan

    danhagan Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,389
    Location:
    El Paso, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    danhagan
     
  23. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    540
    Location:
    Central Left Coast
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ralph
    That's not the way to do it
     
  24. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    You don’t say....:arf:
     
    deonb likes this.
  25. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,657
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    dmspilot
    This aircraft has two throttles, each pilot having his left hand on their respective throttle. It can't be certain that the instructor is the one that pulled the throttle back inexplicably, but it does look like it. What is sure is that the instructor didn't correct the student's poor exercise of positive aircraft control.
     
  26. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    628
    Location:
    MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Banjo33
    Looked like there might have been a little confusion as to who was flying the plane too. They were looking at each other as the guy in the right seat pulled the power after the go around and the one in the left seat seemed to loosen his grip on the stick before finally just letting go of it all together as they stalled and rolled over. That looks a lot like an accelerated stall (finally recognized their proximity to the trees and a panic pull by the guy in the right seat) with not enough right rudder to keep the wings level.
     
  27. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,746
    Location:
    de facto Mejico
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    hindsight2020
    As my old DO used to say during the mandatory quarterly flying safety briefing kabuki: "The thing about SA is, if you don't have it....you won't miss it. Any questions?" :D
     
    Zeldman likes this.
  28. MtnMarcus

    MtnMarcus Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    Idaho
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PropWash
    I have seen this video somewhere else, and I think I remember reading that they were killed.
     
  29. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,391
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Just read through the comments and somebody said the instructor passed and the student was in intensive care and that was written over a year ago.
     
  30. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    8,431
    Location:
    Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    This video made the rounds some time ago, as others have pointed out.

    Plenty to criticize, but I think flight instructors may tend to have a slightly more generous view as to what happened.

    Why? Students may not fully realize how instructors have to sometimes walk a fine line: grab the controls too soon, and the student does not get to see the consequences of his or her actions or inactions. Too late, and the result may be a violation, damage to the airplane, or rarely an actual accident.

    Here, it looked like the instructor was loathe to take over, possibly verbally coaxing his student to come back to the right, who appeared to be allowing the left-turning tendencies of the plane drag them towards the trees. I think the instructor may have assumed to the end that they could power themselves out of trouble and get over the trees. With tragic results.

    Lots of speculation, of course, but that remains my overall impression.
     
  31. Cooter

    Cooter Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    2,013
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cooter
    There are times to be patient and let a student learn from his/her mistakes. That was not one of them. The minute they turned significantly off runway heading I would have taken the controls and debriefed what just happened.

    I only watched it once and I didn't get a good feel for what was happening, but there didn't appear to be any sense of urgency. It would be nice to know more.
     
  32. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2013
    Messages:
    8,431
    Location:
    Mineral Bluff, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fast Eddie B
    That goes without saying.

    Just trying to understand what happened, without demonizing the instructor.

    There have been a handful of times I have waited too long to take control. Which fortunately never resulted in more than embarrassment or minor damage*. It happens.


    *An excursion off the runway at Opa Locka West (no damage), a prop strike at the same airport, damage to the bottom of the rudder on my Citabria from the tailwheel hitting it, a lightly dragged wingtip in a crosswind, also in the Citabria. That's over about 4 decades and just over 4,200 hours of dual given. It’s hard allowing things to go far enough to make your point, but not so far that things get out of control.
     
  33. steingar

    steingar Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    24,790
    Location:
    Land of Savages
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    steingar
    And yet another pice of evidence supporting my "no camera" rule in my airplane. When I ball it up the damn thing's not winding up on Youtube.
     
    1RTK1 likes this.
  34. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,831
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PPC
    I can completely appreciate that thought. But in this case, it seems that control should have been asserted following the initial bank to the left so close to the ground after the touch and go. If the student didn't straighten that up immediately, and then climb and/or bring it back to run way heading, I think that called for asserting control immediately. Of course, I say this as a non-instructor, so take that for what it's worth.
     
  35. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    8,497
    Location:
    NM or the emergency room...
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Billy
    I agree with ya there. Right at the end it looks like one of the souls on board is exhaling for the last time.
     
  36. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,240
    Location:
    Vail, Arizona
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Timbeck2
    Yeah, the guy in the right seat was killed.
     
  37. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    3,951
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    Wow...kind of a disturbing video...surprised it’s up on YouTube.