Welders

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
Who knows about the new error welders? that is the ones that are not a transformer rectifiers.

Dependability ? Power draw? longevity ?

I'm think about replacing my old Miller Econo TIG with a Square wave 175 built by Lincoln. good or ?

the other option is the miller Diversion 180

they are about the same in price and ability

any one got either welder and what do you think of it.?
 
I believe miller is sun setting the econotig. I believe the square wave can handle rods too for the same price as the miller that cannot. You've asked a Piper vs Cessna type question.
I'm partial to miller, I think the diversion is about Half the size of the square wave units. But I'd probably still go with the red box since I can load a rod in it.

I'll buy your econotig if you decided to sell at a reasonable $.
 
Though I don't own one, I have borrowed a friend's square wave 175 machine several times. Very precise heat control, good duty cycle, nice stable arc. Can stick, mig or TIG. Nice small package. I've a standing offer to buy it if he ever wants to sell.
He's a pro welder, owned it for years. Not gonna sell any time soon. That should tell you something.
 
bartmc said:
I believe miller is sun setting the econotig. I believe the square wave can handle rods too for the same price as the miller that cannot. You've asked a Piper vs Cessna type question.
I'm partial to miller, I think the diversion is about Half the size of the square wave units. But I'd probably still go with the red box since I can load a rod in it.

I'll buy your econotig if you decided to sell at a reasonable $.
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The old Econo TIG shipping and repair would be more than it is worth. Unless you want to come get it. :)

OBTW both units mentioned above will do stick, TIG, and wire feed. with a converted gun they will do aluminum wire feed.
 
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bartmc said:
I believe miller is sun setting the econotig. I believe the square wave can handle rods too for the same price as the miller that cannot. You've asked a Piper vs Cessna type question.
I'm partial to miller, I think the diversion is about Half the size of the square wave units. But I'd probably still go with the red box since I can load a rod in it.

I'll buy your econotig if you decided to sell at a reasonable $.
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The diversion is a nice light weight unit, but is the new error type, and I simply wonder about the reliability. they do draw a lot less current from the wall. Where as the square wave Lincoln requires a 230/ single phase plug.
 
Tom-D said:
Who knows about the new error welders? that is the ones that are not a transformer rectifiers.

Dependability ? Power draw? longevity ?

I'm think about replacing my old Miller Econo TIG with a Square wave 175 built by Lincoln. good or ?

the other option is the miller Diversion 180

they are about the same in price and ability

any one got either welder and what do you think of it.?
Click to expand...

You mean the ones with the inverter power supply? They are great, especially if you get one with a multi program set up where you can rotate between 3 or 4 pre programmed settings with a button on the torch. This is excellent if I'm doing long welds on thick aluminum (if you have an AC TIG box) because it allows me to control the heat with frequency rather than peak power. I can just keep rolling with full penetration power without having to stop and let it cool to keep from blowing holes in the parent material. That way I don't have nearly as many starts and stops, just at the end of the filler rod.

If I was buying a new box, I'd be looking at Furonious, best boxes I've ever used in both TIG and MIG.
 
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Henning said:
You mean the ones with the inverter power supply? They are great, especially if you get one with a multi program set up where you can rotate between 3 or 4 pre programmed settings with a button on the torch. This is excellent if I'm doing long welds on thick aluminum (if you have an AC TIG box) because it allows me to control the heat with frequency rather than peak power. I can just keep rolling with full penetration power without having to stop and let it cool to keep from blowing holes in the parent material. That way I don't have nearly as many starts and stops, just at the end of the filler rod.

If I was buying a new box, I'd be looking at Furonious, best boxes I've ever used in both TIG and MIG.
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Have you used either machine I have mentioned?

Get real with the foreign robot welders, both of the welders I am looking at are under 2 grand, fully equipped.
 
Alexb2000 said:
What are you welding Tom?
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what ever comes thru the door.

mostly non structural iron templates for drill guides, 4130 tube for aircraft repairs. very little aluminum sheet. Some Mag castings. Once in a while I will weld a nut on a broken stud so it can be removed.

Just common every day machine shop stuff, My old Econo TIG worked well for many years but it is getting tired. Most all the contacts should be replaced, they've been cleaned too many times.
 
Tom-D said:
Have you used either machine I have mentioned?

Get real with the foreign robot welders, both of the welders I am looking at are under 2 grand, fully equipped.
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The Diversion I think is a replacement for the Econotig series. I used to have an EconoTig I think a 150, on a boat that was fine for personal/small job use, but I wouldn't want it in production job where I had to X-ray all my welds. If you're just looking for a new machine to do 50-100hrs a year and working all thin stuff (< around 3/16) a 180 inverter box should be fine. I wouldn't get one for aluminum though, frequency control is like SVT, once you work with it, you don't want to give it up. The Dynasty series IIRC has frequency control, but probably costs twice as much. To me it's worth even more since most of my welding gets X-ray'd, and every weld I've ever had failed was at a start/stop.
 
Tom-D said:
what ever comes thru the door.

mostly non structural iron templates for drill guides, 4130 tube for aircraft repairs. very little aluminum sheet. Some Mag castings. Once in a while I will weld a nut on a broken stud so it can be removed.

Just common every day machine shop stuff, My old Econo TIG worked well for many years but it is getting tired. Most all the contacts should be replaced, they've been cleaned too many times.
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If you don't mind being limited on capabilities then I am sure either would work fine. If you are ever contemplating more AL work, then I would consider the Dynasty/Precision level of machine also. Another thing is the water cooled torch option. If you think you'll need that I would go to a package that offered all of it out of the box, like the TIG runner packages. Other than that it comes down to color of the paint IMO.

I have used them both, but just to demo them. Both are nice machines for the money.
 
Henning said:
The Diversion I think is a replacement for the Econotig series. I used to have an EconoTig I think a 150, on a boat that was fine for personal/small job use, but I wouldn't want it in production job where I had to X-ray all my welds. If you're just looking for a new machine to do 50-100hrs a year and working all thin stuff (< around 3/16) a 180 inverter box should be fine. I wouldn't get one for aluminum though, frequency control is like SVT, once you work with it, you don't want to give it up. The Dynasty series IIRC has frequency control, but probably costs twice as much. To me it's worth even more since most of my welding gets X-ray'd, and every weld I've ever had failed was at a start/stop.
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You probably don't know that thanks to uncle sugar and the VA bill I have a Associates degree in welding and am a qualified Nuclear boiler plate and pipe welder.

and the ability of a clear Xray weld is the ability of the user not the machine. You can do a clear weld with a 6010 whipping rod, you don't need a TIG.

The purpose of this thread was to evaluate the welding machines, not your abilities or opinions on what I need.
 
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Tom-D said:
You probably don't know that thanks to uncle sugar and the VA bill I have a Associates degree in welding and am a qualified Nuclear boiler plate and pipe welder.

and the ability of a clear Xray weld is the ability of the user not the machine. You can do a clear weld with a 6010 whipping rod, you don't need a TIG.

The purpose of this thread was to evaluate the welding machines, not your abilities or opinions on what I need.
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The inverter power supplies are far superior in service than the old machines and use less power. I have significantly less problems with them. Miller makes a decent quality machine.
 
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I own both a Red Squarewave 175 and a Blue Maxstar 200. For TIG the Miller's DC arc is in another league, playing a different sport. Leaps and bounds better than the Lincoln. The Lincoln has AC, but it has no balance control and is limited to 60Hz. If you've never used an inverter at 180-200Hz and you're not willing to spend the money on a Dynasty/Precision/HTP, don't try one. You'll never want to weld at 60Hz ever again. For stick, the Lincoln is one of the best 7018 machines I've ever used. The Miller does a decent low-hydrogen weld, is very adjustable and the dig/arc force settings will allow you to dial in a cellulose rod to perfection. The Miller will run 1/8" rods all day on any 120V outlet without complaint and you can toss it in the back seat while holding your coffee in the other hand. For the use you describe, I would get the Maxstar or Diversion and either keep the econotig for the rare AL job or just rent one for a day when you need it.
 
gasfiltered said:
I own both a Red Squarewave 175 and a Blue Maxstar 200. For TIG the Miller's DC arc is in another league, playing a different sport. Leaps and bounds better than the Lincoln. The Lincoln has AC, but it has no balance control and is limited to 60Hz. If you've never used an inverter at 180-200Hz and you're not willing to spend the money on a Dynasty/Precision/HTP, don't try one. You'll never want to weld at 60Hz ever again. For stick, the Lincoln is one of the best 7018 machines I've ever used. The Miller does a decent low-hydrogen weld, is very adjustable and the dig/arc force settings will allow you to dial in a cellulose rod to perfection. The Miller will run 1/8" rods all day on any 120V outlet without complaint and you can toss it in the back seat while holding your coffee in the other hand. For the use you describe, I would get the Maxstar or Diversion and either keep the econotig for the rare AL job or just rent one for a day when you need it.
Click to expand...
I do much more low heat TIG than anything else.

Seldom do any stick. When I do it is usually a 6010 tack weld, grind out the root, and finish off with a 7018/9018/or a 12018 low hydrogen rods.
 
I bought a Thermal Arc 185 about 6 years ago. I love it. My son-in-law, who is a trained welder, loves it. I bought it specifically for some thin aluminum fabrication and it worked great. Son-in-law says the stick weld function is smooth as butter.
 
Old Geek said:
I bought a Thermal Arc 185 about 6 years ago. I love it. My son-in-law, who is a trained welder, loves it. I bought it specifically for some thin aluminum fabrication and it worked great. Son-in-law says the stick weld function is smooth as butter.
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The 186 which replaces it looks like a damn nicely speced machine, and cheaper than the Miller. I might have to try one next time I need to pick one up.
 
Old Geek said:
I bought a Thermal Arc 185 about 6 years ago. I love it. My son-in-law, who is a trained welder, loves it. I bought it specifically for some thin aluminum fabrication and it worked great. Son-in-law says the stick weld function is smooth as butter.
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I have a TA 185, and know several other people with them too. Some of the people I know have been using them in a production welding environment as well. They're a good, reliable box that has served everyone I know well.

The best part of the inverter welders is their portability. I have my machine at home but it has been drug out to the airport on many occasions. That's not something you'd be doing with your transformer welder.
 
As opposed to old errors?
 
I have a miller synchrowave 350. Use it almost every day. Nice welder. I borrowed a friends Dynasty 200 to make some repairs on an aluminum hanger door. Impressive what it could do from a 25 amp single phase 220 breaker. After this experience I researched many units and recently purchased a Everlast 250ext. It will weld aluminum from a 120 volt outlet. Not a bad unit for half the price of a dynasty. Now I don't have to bring the lawnmower to work when my wife runs into trees. LOL
 
Tom-D said:
I do much more low heat TIG than anything else.

Seldom do any stick. When I do it is usually a 6010 tack weld, grind out the root, and finish off with a 7018/9018/or a 12018 low hydrogen rods.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the Diversion, but the Maxstar will easily light a 3/32 W at 5-7 amps and has their lift-arc feature which I find much easier to use than scratch-starting a valve torch while you're neck deep in a maze of tubes.
 
Well today the miller smoked, I was almost finished with the re-bar for the new building foundation. First I smell dead electrons, then I stopped the welding, looked up and the smoke was rolling out the rear vents. fan wasn't running and I could hear the Argon hissing. I jumped up and was about to click the breaker when it snapped. (it is right over the welder) shut off the argon, and finished the last 2 welds with the Ac torch.

The pressure to finish the job is off, maybe we go shopping next week.
 
Henning said:
The only Lincln machine I got good service out of was built in the 50s and had a Continental inline 4.
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On two different jobs I ran Lincoln equipment, the first job was welding on flanges to the 90 degree bends of 24" pipe line, we ran a huge old Ideal-arc, root pass was done with tig, second filler pass was run with flux wire filling a 3/4" groove one pass at 650 amps. we did over 5000 flanges never a problem with that machine doing both passes with the same machine.

Second job was laying deck plate on crab boats going north. 1" deck plate grooved 50% and separated 1/2" we filled it with one pass tying the two sheets with the "I" beam below. done with a Lincoln robot track welder using 5/16 flux core 12018, preheated to 900 degrees, click the switch and let it run up the seam with 2 1"rose buds running full heat, the filler was so smooth the flux could be swept away with a broom. The welder never skipped a beat in the three years I work for the local ship builder.
 
Tom-D said:
On two different jobs I ran Lincoln equipment, the first job was welding on flanges to the 90 degree bends of 24" pipe line, we ran a huge old Ideal-arc, root pass was done with tig, second filler pass was run with flux wire filling a 3/4" groove one pass at 650 amps. we did over 5000 flanges never a problem with that machine doing both passes with the same machine.

Second job was laying deck plate on crab boats going north. 1" deck plate grooved 50% and separated 1/2" we filled it with one pass tying the two sheets with the "I" beam below. done with a Lincoln robot track welder using 5/16 flux core 12018, preheated to 900 degrees, click the switch and let it run up the seam with 2 1"rose buds running full heat, the filler was so smooth the flux could be swept away with a broom. The welder never skipped a beat in the three years I work for the local ship builder.
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Different caliber machines from a different day. Buy what you want, but I would grab that deal on that Thermal Arc machine up above. It's even got a program select switch system, but I didn't see what all parameters I could set.
 
Tom-D said:
On two different jobs I ran Lincoln equipment, the first job was welding on flanges to the 90 degree bends of 24" pipe line...
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This reminded me of a crotchety old welder that worked for me years ago. We were eating lunch, and an apprentice remarked that the project we were on was the biggest he had ever worked on and he was most impressed by it.

The old timer laconically offered that the scope of the project wasn't impressive at all, he told the kid "Hell, I've worked on pipelines so big I used to take naps in the bolt hole of a flange..."

:D
 
3393RP said:
he told the kid "Hell, I've worked on pipelines so big I used to take naps in the bolt hole of a flange..."

:D
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That's a pretty big pipe OK.

I've never had a welding job I liked, or I would still be doing it. Pay was great, working conditions suck.
 
They were trying to talk me onto the welding crew at the 4 catamaran project in Aus "You won't have to deal with any apprentices or other supervision". I just laughed, "No thanks, I don't mind fabricator/welder stringing it up, I am not going to sit in a plated up hull welding it all together. I'll keep the apprentice and supervision duties." :rofl:
 
Henning said:
They were trying to talk me onto the welding crew at the 4 catamaran project in Aus "You won't have to deal with any apprentices or other supervision". I just laughed, "No thanks, I don't mind fabricator/welder stringing it up, I am not going to sit in a plated up hull welding it all together. I'll keep the apprentice and supervision duties." :rofl:
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apprentice ? this Apprentice was making 40 bucks per hour in the early 80s, For a student doing their practical on job training that ain't bad.
 
Tom-D said:
apprentice ? this Apprentice was making 40 bucks per hour in the early 80s, For a student doing their practical on job training that ain't bad.
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Yeah, I had 38 of them under 10 journeymen I was responsible for running as well as fabricating my own projects.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, I had 38 of them under 10 journeymen I was responsible for running as well as fabricating my own projects.
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Yeah I know, you were always the supervisor/boss on every job :)
 
Tom-D said:
Yeah I know, you were always the supervisor/boss on every job :)
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For pretty much the last 15 years, yeah. Maybe not The Boss on bigger projects, but yeah, for what they pay me they expect me to run a crew.
 
Tom-D said:
The old Econo TIG shipping and repair would be more than it is worth. Unless you want to come get it. :)

OBTW both units mentioned above will do stick, TIG, and wire feed. with a converted gun they will do aluminum wire feed.
Click to expand...

If you need stick capabilities, study up on the diversion. I've never seen one that will do it. Im sure you can mod it and get it to melt steel but make sure it's what you want.
 
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