weedyer weed?

wbarnhill said:
And people don't drink unless they want some of the "benefits" of doing so, one of the primary ones being relaxation. Claim taste all you want, but that's like a pot smoker saying "I like the smell of it."
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That is not true, William. Alcoholics drink alcohol to get a buzz or to relax. A casual drinker can drink a beer to just drink a beer. Beer also quenches thirst very well. Ask anyone who drinks a beer after mowing their lawn in the summer. They're certainly not trying to relax right before doing more yardwork, right?

Your argument is just the excuse of those who think marijuana is ok. You'll grasp at straws to make it seem like its the same as alcohol.

AND, if it turns out I'm wrong, and most people do drink a beer to relax, that's fine, because they're not getting ****faced. No one, NO ONE, smokes weed without getting stoned.
 
Eamon said:
Booze has been a social lubracant for ages. For the effect.

Did anyone like the taste of beer the first time? Then why start drinking beer?
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I would gather not. Its an acquired taste that comes from being young and dumb. Kids treat alcohol like everyone treats marijuana. You get as messed up as you can most often.

If you drink for the taste, wouldn't you rather have a milk shake, egg cream, mead, O'doul's?
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I do drink milk shakes, and soda. You ever taste O'Douls? Its nasty, and not a good comparison.
 
SkyHog said:
Your argument is just the excuse of those who think marijuana is ok. You'll grasp at straws to make it seem like its the same as alcohol.
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Nice try, but I've made it quite obvious that I don't believe marijuana is okay. The fact is; however, that the effects of marijuana and alcohol are similar. And regardless of dosage, the drug of choice has an effect. Hell, upon drinking a single swallow of alcoholic beverage, most people will feel the diuretic property kick in, because of how strong it is. That in itself should show that the drug is having an effect on your system.
 
Nick, at the risk of asking you to incriminate yourself, are you basing your opinions on pot smoking on personal experience, observation, or "cultural knowledge"?

I have known many people for whom pot was a simple, occasional recreational outlet. Not like drinking a beer while doing yardwork, but like having a shot of tequila at a birthday party. And I daresay you must distinguish between Tommy Chong and that kind of user, just as you would distiguish between your yardwork-beer-drinking example and WC Fields.
 
wbarnhill said:
Nice try, but I've made it quite obvious that I don't believe marijuana is okay. The fact is; however, that the effects of marijuana and alcohol are similar. And regardless of dosage, the drug of choice has an effect. Hell, upon drinking a single swallow of alcoholic beverage, most people will feel the diuretic property kick in, because of how strong it is. That in itself should show that the drug is having an effect on your system.
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I'm not arguing that point, William, I've conceeded the fact that even small amounts of alcohol have some effect, even if it is miniscule. The point is that NO ONE smokes weed unless they're getting stoned. People drink without getting drunk.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm not arguing that point, William, I've conceeded the fact that even small amounts of alcohol have some effect, even if it is miniscule. The point is that NO ONE smokes weed unless they're getting stoned. People drink without getting drunk.
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I have friends who will smoke a small amount of marijuana to relax; not to get stoned. How is this different from someone who drinks a small amount of alcohol to relax?
 
wbarnhill said:
I have friends who will smoke a small amount of marijuana to relax; not to get stoned. How is this different from someone who drinks a small amount of alcohol to relax?
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Besides one is legal and one is not?
 
Ken Ibold said:
Nick, at the risk of asking you to incriminate yourself, are you basing your opinions on pot smoking on personal experience, observation, or "cultural knowledge"?
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Well, I'm not going to admit on a public forum that I have used marijuana, but I was a kid once, and I saw a lot of people (most of my friends) smoking it, and most of them moved on to harder drugs at some point. Some got addicted, some didn't, some of the addicted recovered, one didn't. Its a shame.

I have known many people for whom pot was a simple, occasional recreational outlet. Not like drinking a beer while doing yardwork, but like having a shot of tequila at a birthday party. And I daresay you must distinguish between Tommy Chong and that kind of user, just as you would distiguish between your yardwork-beer-drinking example and WC Fields.
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I also currently know people (close friends, in fact....NOT ME here) that occasionally smoke marijuana recreationally. Whenever they smoke, they are getting stoned, not just taking a single toke and going on with the rest of their day. I definitely agree that they are not potheads by any stretch of the imagination, but they do get messed up everytime they play with the weed. And moreover, they do it in batches, like a binge drinker: Its usually a weekend long event when they do it.
 
wbarnhill said:
I have friends who will smoke a small amount of marijuana to relax; not to get stoned. How is this different from someone who drinks a small amount of alcohol to relax?
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Because they are getting stoned, not relaxing. You (and they) are painting that picture to legitimize it, but the fact is, they are stoned. They probably do the little giggle thing, tell dumb jokes, and eat snackfood (which is not a problem in and of itself), but these people that you know are so few and far between, its not the reason the laws exist.
 
SkyHog said:
Because they are getting stoned, not relaxing. You (and they) are painting that picture to legitimize it, but the fact is, they are stoned. They probably do the little giggle thing, tell dumb jokes, and eat snackfood (which is not a problem in and of itself), but these people that you know are so few and far between, its not the reason the laws exist.
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I have to disagree there. They are impaired, just as someone who drank a beer or two is impaired. They are not; however, "stoned". Stoned implies far more than simply relaxed, just as drunk implies far more than simply relaxed due to alcohol intake.

The point I'm making is that alcohol and marijuana are both drugs, and both can inhibit an individual to varying degrees depending on the use. The claim that a single beer does nothing is equivalent to a claim that a hit or two of marijuana does nothing. It doesn't hold water. That's my point, and I think it's either gotten across or it never will, so I'm done :)
 
SkyHog said:
I also currently know people (close friends, in fact....NOT ME here) that occasionally smoke marijuana recreationally. Whenever they smoke, they are getting stoned, not just taking a single toke and going on with the rest of their day. I definitely agree that they are not potheads by any stretch of the imagination, but they do get messed up everytime they play with the weed. And moreover, they do it in batches, like a binge drinker: Its usually a weekend long event when they do it.
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OK, even stipulating the point that one cannot take a single toke and not get stoned (which is debatable), it still misses the whole legalization point -- although it does detract from making a direct comparison to alcohol. Which constitutes the greater harm -- the violence, cost, and other unsavory aspects of including pot in the war on drugs, or the possibility that someone who smokes legal joints bought at the corner store might then be induced to stroll on down to the neighborhood crackhouse? While I don't support pot smoking at all -- especially after insight I developed as a professional musician when I was in college in the 1970s -- I personally think grouping pot with crack, cocaine, heroin et al is a mistake. Neither should it be grouped with beer. Jagermeister, maybe. :rolleyes:

(In a lot of ways, this discussion is right along the lines of "is flying safer than driving" in that subjective criteria take over and anecdotal experience takes the place of bona fide evidence.)
 
wbarnhill said:
The claim that a single beer does nothing is equivalent to a claim that a hit or two of marijuana does nothing.
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And I would actually argue that a hit or two or marijuna does about as little as a single beer does. The point is that no one stops at a hit or two of marijuana.

I get your point, believe me, but just like everyone else who argues the point, the bigger picture is missed, and that is that people don't always get drunk off alcohol, but people always get stoned off weed, just because of the nature of druggies.
 
SkyHog said:
I get your point, believe me, but just like everyone else who argues the point, the bigger picture is missed, and that is that people don't always get drunk off alcohol, but people always get stoned off weed, just because of the nature of druggies.
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I think the dispute is whether this bigger picture does, in fact, exist. I do not believe "people always get stoned off weed, just because of the nature of druggies." Not for a second.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I think the dispute is whether this bigger picture does, in fact, exist. I do not believe "people always get stoned off weed, just because of the nature of druggies." Not for a second.
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I get that idea from a recusive ideology, really. Weed is currently illegal. Those that smoke weed are doing it illegally currently. That shows to begin with that they are willing to break laws, so their morality is, IMHO, already in question.

The "nature of druggies" stems from the fact that they are willing to break the law to get messed up. You can't draw a parallel to prohibition of alcohol, because that was something that was taken away. You had the comparison to pre-prohibition and post-prohibition to see which was better.

The plain and simple fact is that its not that hard to avoid marijuana. Why is there such a strong debate to legalize marijuana? The same reason criminals blame the laws, blame society, blame anything but themselves for their decisions.

Recusive beliefs usually annoy me, but its the only way to explain the phenomenon.
 
Alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco, are legal and marijuana is illegal. If you look at this fact from the perspective of the almighty dollar, the economic bottom line, if you have the ability to separate your political and emotional baggage from the argument, and you really understand the effects of these drugs it all makes perfect sense.

Matt Michael
 
Frank Browne said:
No I didn't. I was pointing out why others can't distinguish between use and ABuse.
Don't try to put words in my mouth.
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Quoting the words you typed does not mean I am putting words in your mouth. Unless--of course you didn't type it. In that case you might want to change your password.
 
jesse said:
Quoting the words you typed does not mean I am putting words in your mouth. Unless--of course you didn't type it. In that case you might want to change your password.
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I typed it alright, but I fail to see where I was contradicting myself. I was responding to your post claiming to have never seen anyone use MJ without abusing it.
 
SkyHog said:
. In many places, being drunk in public is a crime, just as being stoned is.
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Ding Ding Ding correct statement Nick. I think thats what folks on both sides of the debate are getting at. Also FWIW I and my police friends have seen many and Angry Drunk but never an Angry Stoner if that matters to anyone.

Either way still wouldn't want to be in the car in front of either of them.
 
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