Wealthy Developer Trying to Close Cloverdale Airport (O69) - Northern California

Dav8or said:
That's great news for those hangars! I'm curious though, is NASA still going to work there? They weren't mentioned in the article. The wind tunnels they have there are amazing!! I got to work in there once and they are seriously impressive. Their biggest tunnel is big enough to put a 737 in there and it is capable of moving air fast enough to fly it!! That's never been down though.

It would be awesome if Google were to open up the airfield to GA and build some hangars to rent, but I seriously doubt Google has any interest what so ever in that idea. I imagine they like their private strip for their jets all to themselves.
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Google has the airfield, not the base. They have "rented" space for years.

They almost certainly will not open the airport up to GA unless you're worth at least a billion. They won't even let those of us who work here use it.
 
Shawn said:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_27823009/google-takes-over-aging-moffett-field-and-its

"Google on Wednesday formally takes over the 1,000-acre site with plans to re purpose its three airship hangars as laboratories for developing robots, rovers, drones, Internet-carrying balloons and other cutting-edge technology. The company will also manage the airfield's two runways and upgrade an old military golf course for public use."

"Google has declined to discuss its plans for the airfield ahead of Wednesday's takeover, but the $1.16 billion, 60-year lease deal it signed with NASA last year has been welcomed as a lifesaver for the decaying property"
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I missed that article - thanks for the link!
 
Dav8or said:
That's great news for those hangars! I'm curious though, is NASA still going to work there? They weren't mentioned in the article. The wind tunnels they have there are amazing!! I got to work in there once and they are seriously impressive. Their biggest tunnel is big enough to put a 737 in there and it is capable of moving air fast enough to fly it!! That's never been down though.

It would be awesome if Google were to open up the airfield to GA and build some hangars to rent, but I seriously doubt Google has any interest what so ever in that idea. I imagine they like their private strip for their jets all to themselves.
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The wind tunnels are amazing. I've been in the largest one myself. The six wooden props driving the tunnels were a crazy size. I was also surprised to find the walls corrugated. Wouldn't you have expected smooth? But, apparently, the corrugated walls help keep the air moving easily, like a golf ball.

I didn't remember it being big enough for a 737, but I looked up the stats: 80' x 120' and 300 knots. You are correct...damn.

On the other hand, it hasn't been fired up in a long time that I'm aware of. It draws so much energy it can only be turned on at night and only with a NOTAM due to the E-ticket ride it gives to any aircraft on a long final into KPAO. Computer simulation has mostly replaced what it does.

The other wind tunnels do see lots of use.

EDIT: Ah, not quite. The big section, which can house a 737, can only do 100 knots. The 40'x80' part of the tunnel can do 300 knots. Still impressive. "To move 60 tons of air per second, the tunnel uses 104 megawatts of electricity or the equivalent of a 225,000-person city." Damn. For reference, that's 140,000 HP.
 
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arnoha said:
The wind tunnels are amazing. I've been in the largest one myself. The six wooden props driving the tunnels were a crazy size. I was also surprised to find the walls corrugated. Wouldn't you have expected smooth? But, apparently, the corrugated walls help keep the air moving easily, like a golf ball.

I didn't remember it being big enough for a 737, but I looked up the stats: 80' x 120' and 300 knots. You are correct...damn.

On the other hand, it hasn't been fired up in a long time that I'm aware of. It draws so much energy it can only be turned on at night and only with a NOTAM due to the E-ticket ride it gives to any aircraft on a long final into KPAO. Computer simulation has mostly replaced what it does.

The other wind tunnels do see lots of use.

EDIT: Ah, not quite. The big section, which can house a 737, can only do 100 knots. The 40'x80' part of the tunnel can do 300 knots. Still impressive. "To move 60 tons of air per second, the tunnel uses 104 megawatts of electricity or the equivalent of a 225,000-person city." Damn. For reference, that's 140,000 HP.
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That's my recollection. I recall something over 100kts, but it would be slow flight for sure with all the flaps and slats out! They told us back then that when they fire that big guy up, they have to give PG&E three weeks notice so they can arrange to have power re routed to handle it without crashing the grid. They also told us about the NOTAM for KPAO. A lot of exhaust.

When I was in there, I had park my truck (26,000 GVW box truck) down in the exhaust and had to push my cart loads of equipment up through the blower blades. They are impressive as they are all laminated spruce I think. They also showed is this peculiar yellow line on the floor that winds it way though the tunnel and facility. I guess it was painted there at the request of the secret service back when George H.W. Bush toured the facility when he was president.

It's the biggest in the world, very cool and a national treasure. They also have some small wind tunnels (for models only) that can do super sonic air speed.
 
arnoha said:
The wind tunnels are amazing. I've been in the largest one myself. The six wooden props driving the tunnels were a crazy size. I was also surprised to find the walls corrugated. Wouldn't you have expected smooth? But, apparently, the corrugated walls help keep the air moving easily, like a golf ball.

I didn't remember it being big enough for a 737, but I looked up the stats: 80' x 120' and 300 knots. You are correct...damn.

On the other hand, it hasn't been fired up in a long time that I'm aware of. It draws so much energy it can only be turned on at night and only with a NOTAM due to the E-ticket ride it gives to any aircraft on a long final into KPAO. Computer simulation has mostly replaced what it does.

The other wind tunnels do see lots of use.

EDIT: Ah, not quite. The big section, which can house a 737, can only do 100 knots. The 40'x80' part of the tunnel can do 300 knots. Still impressive. "To move 60 tons of air per second, the tunnel uses 104 megawatts of electricity or the equivalent of a 225,000-person city." Damn. For reference, that's 140,000 HP.
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I have often heard what sounds like a wind tunnel from my house, which is about a mile-and-a-half away. I'm not sure how long it's been since the last time I heard it. I don't recall ever seeing a NOTAM about it though.
 
Palmpilot said:
I have often heard what sounds like a wind tunnel from my house, which is about a mile-and-a-half away. I'm not sure how long it's been since the last time I heard it. I don't recall ever seeing a NOTAM about it though.
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Like what was posted above, it is largely obsolete and costs millions just to fire it up. Somebody has to have a really, really good reason to use it. It wouldn't surprise me if it hasn't been switched on in a decade or more. When I was there (probably about 15 years ago), they said the last project in there was a few years earlier and it was people doing research on how to make tractor trailer rigs more aerodynamic and efficient.

They were parking real tractors and trailers in there and tweaking them. Those under trailer skirts and the folding contraptions you sometimes see on trailers as well as the flush wheel covers are the direct result of this research.

The funny thing is they came up with designs for the tractor too and sadly the trucking industry has been too traditional to adopt them. They just didn't look "right" for truck buyers. Too girly or something, so most companies pretty much continue to design and sell very traditional looking trucks because that's what buyers want even if it does cost them a significant amount at the pump.
 
Dav8or said:
Like what was posted above, it is largely obsolete and costs millions just to fire it up. Somebody has to have a really, really good reason to use it. It wouldn't surprise me if it hasn't been switched on in a decade or more...
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If I'm right that what I've been hearing is a wind tunnel, I have definitely heard it within the last few years, though not often.
 
Palmpilot said:
If I'm right that what I've been hearing is a wind tunnel, I have definitely heard it within the last few years, though not often.
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Reading on their website suggests that they have been using it. Looks like it was decommissioned by NASA in 2003, but brought back on-line by the Air Force in 2008. So, it must be getting some use. Pictures from 2012 show parachute testing for Mars work.

But...only the 80x120 section needs a NOTAM. The smaller section is closed circuit, so it doesn't cause any problems for pilots. The big section is open circuit, though, and the exhaust stream is...substantial. (Also, the open circuit is one of the reasons it consumes so much power. Every expended watt is just dumped into the atmosphere.)

Also, I don't know if the Unitary wind tunnels (which get lots of use) would be audible from where you are. Probably not, but that's also a possibility.
 
arnoha said:
Reading on their website suggests that they have been using it. Looks like it was decommissioned by NASA in 2003, but brought back on-line by the Air Force in 2008. So, it must be getting some use. Pictures from 2012 show parachute testing for Mars work.

But...only the 80x120 section needs a NOTAM. The smaller section is closed circuit, so it doesn't cause any problems for pilots. The big section is open circuit, though, and the exhaust stream is...substantial. (Also, the open circuit is one of the reasons it consumes so much power. Every expended watt is just dumped into the atmosphere.)

Also, I don't know if the Unitary wind tunnels (which get lots of use) would be audible from where you are. Probably not, but that's also a possibility.
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All I know is that it sounds like a really big fan running, and it seems to come from the direction of Moffett Field.
 
arnoha said:
Reading on their website suggests that they have been using it. Looks like it was decommissioned by NASA in 2003, but brought back on-line by the Air Force in 2008. So, it must be getting some use. Pictures from 2012 show parachute testing for Mars work.

But...only the 80x120 section needs a NOTAM. The smaller section is closed circuit, so it doesn't cause any problems for pilots. The big section is open circuit, though, and the exhaust stream is...substantial. (Also, the open circuit is one of the reasons it consumes so much power. Every expended watt is just dumped into the atmosphere.)

Also, I don't know if the Unitary wind tunnels (which get lots of use) would be audible from where you are. Probably not, but that's also a possibility.
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The Unitary Plan and pressure tunnels both make a lot of noise.

The 80x120 doesn't need a NOTAM. You can stand at the intake while it's running and feel nothing (in fact, there is a soccer field there), and at the exhaust feeling a breeze. It's no worse than the summer bay winds. It's in Palo Alto's AFD remarks, as it might startle someone. That's as bad as it gets.
 
MAKG1 said:
The Unitary Plan and pressure tunnels both make a lot of noise.

The 80x120 doesn't need a NOTAM. You can stand at the intake while it's running and feel nothing (in fact, there is a soccer field there), and at the exhaust feeling a breeze. It's no worse than the summer bay winds. It's in Palo Alto's AFD remarks, as it might startle someone. That's as bad as it gets.
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Sounds like there's one running right now.
 
We don't have any fly-in resorts in California. Would be pretty cool if the developer bought the airport and changed the pattern rules to avoid his resort and provide fuel discounts etc for visitors. I'd be all over going there for a vacation
 
TheGolfPilot said:
We don't have any fly-in resorts in California. Would be pretty cool if the developer bought the airport and changed the pattern rules to avoid his resort and provide fuel discounts etc for visitors. I'd be all over going there for a vacation
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Depends on your definition of "Fly-in Resort". We don't have any that I'm aware of that are aviation themed, but we have resorts that can be flown to. I can think of a couple, off-hand, including The Sea Ranch (CA51) and Harris Ranch (3O8). I've flown to both. Want a challenging approach? CA51 qualifies! (But PPR.)
 
I've never thought of Sea Ranch as a resort. Isn't it a fly-in community? Way back in the day I wanted a house at Sea Ranch.
 
Everskyward said:
I've never thought of Sea Ranch as a resort. Isn't it a fly-in community? Way back in the day I wanted a house at Sea Ranch.
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Maybe it was intended that way, but nearly all the homes are now vacation homes and rentals. Maybe "resort" isn't quite the right word, but that's basically what it is, though very laid back. That's how I got to fly there: VRBO.
 
arnoha said:
Depends on your definition of "Fly-in Resort". We don't have any that I'm aware of that are aviation themed, but we have resorts that can be flown to. I can think of a couple, off-hand, including The Sea Ranch (CA51) and Harris Ranch (3O8). I've flown to both. Want a challenging approach? CA51 qualifies! (But PPR.)
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I would not consider Harris Ranch a resort of any kind. It is a place to fly into for good food and you can stay over night if you want, but not really a resort.

There are tons of fun places in California you can fly into and then get a VRBO rental, but I know of very few actual resorts (other than Disneyland :roll eyes:) that near an airport. Of course many here may know of some.

I think Cloverdale would be an awesome fly in resort! They could divert water from the Russian River and make heated pools with flowing river water. Kind of like the swimming pool they have in Austin with the natural water, but heated. The area is beautiful and there are awesome wineries around there too.

Any developer that can't see that airport as an asset to the resort is seriously missing the big picture.
 
There has long been a fly in resort in Death Valley.

Truckee (Northstar) is pretty close.

There are several fly in campgrounds, such as Oceano, Lake Isabella, and others.
 
Well, I guess I can forget about flying there tomorrow!
 
If it's hot tomorrow there, he can run down and jump in the river as I have done!
 
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