Water in my tank

planeviz

planeviz

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
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New Hampshire
Display Name
Dave G
From yesterday's preflight. First time I have had any significant water in a tank. How about you, anything like this?

photo.JPG
 
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yes usually after the plane sits outside in the rain or flies through rain with lousy seals on the caps
 
Unfortunately that looks like a typical sample from my left tank on the 170 after it has rained (horrible recessed fuel cap design).
 
Right tank on a 172 looked worse than that recently, found seal on the cap to have been loose.

Check your cap seals, I've also seen the steel filler necks on your type of plane perforated with rust allowing water to come in.
 
planeviz said:
From yesterday's preflight. First time I have had any significant water in a tank. How about you, anything like this?
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I pulled about four gallons out of my 150's tank after the deadstick landing.....mind you, that was 30 years ago.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
I pulled about four gallons out of my 150's tank after the deadstick landing.....mind you, that was 30 years ago.

Ron Wanttaja
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Was that the "champagne bubbles" flight?
 
I've seen worse too. Not fun (and not safe). I had to replace the filler neck gaskets and the problem went away.
 
If there has been no rain since you last flew, let the FBO know he's pumping water?
 
Wow, never seen so much water in the fuel.
What is the procedure? just drain it from the lowest point?
 
gil_mor said:
Wow, never seen so much water in the fuel.
What is the procedure? just drain it from the lowest point?
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Assuming it is not a bladder tank, you just drain it until no more water comes out and the fuel sample is clear and bright, then you're good to go.

If it is a bladder tank....could be more problematic if there are wrinkles trapping the water in pockets.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Unfortunately that looks like a typical sample from my left tank on the 170 after it has rained (horrible recessed fuel cap design).
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That would be enough for me to go to the Monarch filler neck up grade.
 
Tom-D said:
That would be enough for me to go to the Monarch filler neck up grade.
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Funny you should mention that...I specifically asked about the Monarch filler neck caps on the 170 board and stirred up a real ****storm...most (but not all) insisting that there was no legal way to install Monarch caps in a 170. What did you have on yours, Tom?
 
Id imagine that if needed you could find a fsdo fellow who would see that issuing you a field approval would be in the best interests of all.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Funny you should mention that...I specifically asked about the Monarch filler neck caps on the 170 board and stirred up a real ****storm...most (but not all) insisting that there was no legal way to install Monarch caps in a 170. What did you have on yours, Tom?
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When talking to the members of the 170 Association you must remember every one there is an expert, because they own one.

I have not researched this issue in 10 years, It would really depend upon if you could find parts that fit. Does monarch have a kit for the 170?

I didn't have any water issues with my 170s so I had OEM caps.
There are 3 tank set ups in the 170, which do you have?The 48? with two tanks or 3? The 48 presents a problem because they are Cessna 140 tanks with the neck built into the tank its self.

49 and up have the filler neck assembly screwed to the tank, and can possibly be swapped out with later style 172 filler necks. (I don't recall if the screw pattern is the same), if it isn't change to the later style 172 tank.

Any of these mods can be done on a field approval. talk to your A&P-IA.
 
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gil_mor said:
Wow, never seen so much water in the fuel.
What is the procedure? just drain it from the lowest point?
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Drain the fuel will get most of it out. Add 2-3 gallons of E-85 and allow it to flow out. The ethanol will absorb the moisture. Make sure it drains out as much as possible and fill it up with good fuel to dilute any remain ethanol. Not sure this would be good on badders, but it works great on metal tanks. It will not harm proseal for that short of time.
 
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Tom-D said:
Does monarch have a kit for the 170?
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No, they have an approval for the 195 (which used the same fuel caps as the '48 170) but not for the 170.

Tom-D said:
There are 3 tank set ups in the 170, which do you have?The 48? with two tanks or 3? The 48 presents a problem because they are Cessna 140 tanks with the neck built into the tank its self.
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I have the original '48 set up: 2 x 12.5 gallon tanks on the right interconnected and one 12.5 gallon tank on the left. As mentioned before, I also have the metalized wing. My caps are recessed which makes water collection a problem as well as the cap design which allows water to enter through the stem.
 
Fearless Tower said:
No, they have an approval for the 195 (which used the same fuel caps as the '48 170) but not for the 170.

Caps are not the problem, the filler neck is what needs to be changed.

I have the original '48 set up: 2 x 12.5 gallon tanks on the right interconnected and one 12.5 gallon tank on the left. As mentioned before, I also have the metalized wing. My caps are recessed which makes water collection a problem as well as the cap design which allows water to enter through the stem.
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but do you have the single vent on the cabin top or vented caps.

back in the day when the vented fuel cap AD came out, many 170 operators placed vented caps in the filler neck well and this causes a problem of getting water in the tank.

If you have a single point vent system, go back to the sealed caps, and be sure you have good rubber gaskets in your caps.

t
That should cure your water problems. and there is no paper work required to do that.

The vented cap AD does not apply to your 48, 170.
 
Tom-D said:
but do you have the single vent on the cabin top or vented caps.

The vented cap AD does not apply to your 48, 170.
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That is correct - I have the original 195 style caps with the twisting bar in the center.

I do believe the problem is the caps though - those original twist-bar caps collect water in the cap itself which can seep through the center post. There is a gasket on the underside of the post, which I am going to try and replace and see if that solves the problem.
 
When your planes are outside can you cover the fuel caps? At OSH I cover them with masking tape to keep water out.
 
Geico266 said:
When your planes are outside can you cover the fuel caps? At OSH I cover them with masking tape to keep water out.
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Spruce does sell external cap covers that will work on some planes. I actually got a set, but the problem with the '48 170 is that the fuel cap itself is considerably larger than any of the external caps available. It does help cover the center stem (that I was referring to in my previous post), but does not stay in place if a strong wind...or jet blast hits it (we have transient jets on the ramp at my home field).
 
I just saw about that much water for the very first time in my new rental (new to me). I was with a CFI doing a checkout of the 1980 Cessna 172 and it was after about 1 week of rain. They keep the plane outside and she just told me to keep testing until no more water appeared.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I just saw about that much water for the very first time in my new rental (new to me). I was with a CFI doing a checkout of the 1980 Cessna 172 and it was after about 1 week of rain. They keep the plane outside and she just told me to keep testing until no more water appeared.
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That is scary, for more than 1 reason.

Just because you didn't have any water in the last sample. how do you know you got it all?

if they are too cheap to get the gas cap gaskets replaced what else did they cheap out?
 
Tom-D said:
That is scary, for more than 1 reason.

Just because you didn't have any water in the last sample. how do you know you got it all?

if they are too cheap to get the gas cap gaskets replaced what else did they cheap out?
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They do say their airplanes are better maintained, but I flew the heck out of my little 152 at the other school (and the 172) and that included winter time and I never once saw water in my samples. Then again, maybe at the old school I wasn't the first student of the day or something.
 
I had to replace the filler neck gaskets on our C-150. It is tied down and we get quite a bit of rain here in Memphis. No problems at all since I replaced the gaskets. Sounds like the 172 you rented needs the gaskets replaced. I can tell you from experience that just standing there draining until no more water shows up won't get it all. I used to have to rock our 150, push the tail down, drain and repeat to finally get all the water. Not fun. Sounds like the gaskets on the 172 need to be replaced.
 
somorris said:
I had to replace the filler neck gaskets on our C-150. It is tied down and we get quite a bit of rain here in Memphis. No problems at all since I replaced the gaskets. Sounds like the 172 you rented needs the gaskets replaced. I can tell you from experience that just standing there draining until no more water shows up won't get it all. I used to have to rock our 150, push the tail down, drain and repeat to finally get all the water. Not fun. Sounds like the gaskets on the 172 need to be replaced.
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If I didn't get all the water, would I notice it in flight (engine running rough)? Or would it need to be a lot to notice?
 
Our engine ran a little rough and would not produce as much power as it should have. My nephew had an engine quit because of water.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
If I didn't get all the water, would I notice it in flight (engine running rough)? Or would it need to be a lot to notice?
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Depends on how much water.

A little water may not be noticed or there may be so much the engine stops as noted in an earlier post.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I just saw about that much water for the very first time in my new rental (new to me). I was with a CFI doing a checkout of the 1980 Cessna 172 and it was after about 1 week of rain. They keep the plane outside and she just told me to keep testing until no more water appeared.
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If I was renting a plane and the fuel sump sample showed that much water I would take the sample straight into the front desk, place it on the counter and say........... "this **** don't cut it".....

That much water will kill someone.:yesnod::sad::sad:.


Ben.
 
After seeing the OP's picture.

Next time you're at the airport watch how many people don't test the fuel (or do any pre-flight for that matter).
 
Fearless Tower said:
Spruce does sell external cap covers that will work on some planes. I actually got a set, but the problem with the '48 170 is that the fuel cap itself is considerably larger than any of the external caps available. It does help cover the center stem (that I was referring to in my previous post), but does not stay in place if a strong wind...or jet blast hits it (we have transient jets on the ramp at my home field).
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Get a couple of those suction cup handles like for picking up glass.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Depends on how much water.

A little water may not be noticed or there may be so much the engine stops as noted in an earlier post.
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Cessnas also love to do this at rotation for takeoff.

No way no how would I accept a rental with that much water in a tank.

Walking in and tossing the keys on the counter and saying, "Fix your crap.", is about all they'd ever get out of me if I found that.

Bad fuel cap maintenance is a dumb way to die.

As far as the 170 goes. That's a pain that there's nothing easily retrofitted. I think I'd be experimenting with a lot of home brew external covers on that bird until I could find a solution.

Hell, weak tape, a frisbee, and a rope or bungee around the wing to hold it there if I had to.

Better to strap some dumb looking cover over the wing than be dead.
 
denverpilot said:
Cessnas also love to do this at rotation for takeoff.

No way no how would I accept a rental with that much water in a tank.

Walking in and tossing the keys on the counter and saying, "Fix your crap.", is about all they'd ever get out of me if I found that.

Bad fuel cap maintenance is a dumb way to die.

As far as the 170 goes. That's a pain that there's nothing easily retrofitted. I think I'd be experimenting with a lot of home brew external covers on that bird until I could find a solution.

Hell, weak tape, a frisbee, and a rope or bungee around the wing to hold it there if I had to.

Better to strap some dumb looking cover over the wing than be dead.
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For the 170 all you need to do is maintain the system the way it is designed. and carry towel to soak the water out of the well before you open the cap.
 
Tom-D said:
For the 170 all you need to do is maintain the system the way it is designed. and carry towel to soak the water out of the well before you open the cap.
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Geez..... Think about what you just said......................

If it were PROPERLY designed there would not be water puddled up in the well... it would have had a drain designed into it.. IMHO...

Ben
 
N801BH said:
If it were PROPERLY designed there would not be water puddled up in the well... it would have had a drain designed into it.. IMHO...
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Or raised so it wouldn't puddle....which is exactly what Cessna did.....in 1949!
 
And please do not go around adding or removing vented caps at random on Cessnas. There are good reasons to have or not have a cap (and caps of certain characteristics). You can mess up your fuel flow randomly changing them from the approved design.
 
flyingron said:
And please do not go around adding or removing vented caps at random on Cessnas. There are good reasons to have or not have a cap (and caps of certain characteristics). You can mess up your fuel flow randomly changing them from the approved design.
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While you bring up a good point, my particular model of 170 does not require a vented fuel cap.
 
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