Water in my Tank after flight

Pablo Canales

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Pablo
Hi! I currently own a Cessna 205 with Monarch tank caps installed on it.

Water has been appearing in my left tank right after I land this past 2 weeks.
Always after I fly, never in the morning.

I’ve had this plane for a couple years now, and I’ve never seen water before. But lately water shows up right after each flight.

On my first flight of the day, I drain my tanks and they all come out clean.

I assume water is somehow hiding inside my tank, and after the first flight it runs to the drain area of the tank?

We already changed the fuel cap O-Ring

The real question is (how is water getting into my tank?

It never did before
And It has not rained lately
 

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Image2.jpg
"Cliff notes" Cessna wing tanks retain water

Image2.jpg


http://www.sumpthis.com/10292003lettertofaafsdonashville/faafsdonashvilleletter10292003.htm
 
Do you rock the wings to make any condensation on the top of the tank to drop off?

Also, water that is entrained in fuel will take a while to settle and make its way to the sump. If the water appears 'right after' a flight then its always been in thr bottom of the tank... Not entrained. Are there any baffles? Have you drained all useable fuel and see how much water there is??
 
Do you rock the wings to make any condensation on the top of the tank to drop off?

Also, water that is entrained in fuel will take a while to settle and make its way to the sump. If the water appears 'right after' a flight then its always been in thr bottom of the tank... Not entrained. Are there any baffles? Have you drained all useable fuel and see how much water there is??
That’s the weird thing, the mechanics already took all the fuel out and dried the tank, but water keeps showing up every morning after the first or even second flight
 
Add isopropyl alcohol to get rid of that small amount. Condensation is common when temperature and humidity are right. The best way to limit condensation potential is to keep the tanks full.
 
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Add isopropyl alcohol to get rid of that small amount. Condensation is common when temperature and humidity are right. The best way to limit condensation potential is to keep the tanks full.
Unless you buy the industrial isopropyl, you're getting the drugstore stuff that is 30% water. Even the good stuff is only 99% IPA. Methyl hydrate is the automotive fuel system deicer. Neither of those are approved, AFAIK, for aircraft fuel systems. There are rubber parts in all systems that could be damaged by alcohols, which is why Mogas STCs forbid any fuels containing ethanol. You could create bigger problems dumping some of that stuff in your tanks.
 
You always come back with that. Go to NAPA and buy isopropyl fuel additive. It works great and is approved at 1% concentrations by Continental and Lycoming. That works out to one 12oz bottle per 10 gallons of avgas. And it has no relationship to alcohol (ethanol) prohibitions in car gas.

https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=52776
 
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Add isopropyl alcohol to get rid of that small amount. Condensation is common when temperature and humidity are right. The best way to limit condensation potential is to keep the tanks full.
Sounds good, how other way could we be getting water if tanks are always full?
Might be leaking caps? Or would it have something to do with the fuel tank vents?
 
My problem was found to be that I was pumping water into my wet wing tanks.
Sump quite a bit, rock the wings & tail, sump some more.
 
Questions for the OP.
1. Why do you sump AFTER a flight?
2. If you do not sump after a flight is the water present before the next flight?
3. Are you experiencing any performance issues? (With the engine/plane, not personally).
4. Will the lack of water, change your sumping procedure.

I know we have largely ruled out rain, but as someone suggested, cover you gas caps with plastic wrap for a while. I think GLAD makes a Press 'N' Seal type.
 
WaterSolubilityInGas.JPG
This may be your source of small but not trivial amounts of water. I had an engine failure on a 172H on a bitterly cold day that was traceable to a tiny amount of "snow" in the gascolator screen which starved the engine for takeoff fuel flow after getting maybe 200 ft of altitude.

The data is old from Amoco, but still significant.
 
That one is specific to the 150/152. Its problem is quite different than the bladder tanks have.
Yeah, I had an engine stoppage in a 150 right after takeoff due to water. Plenty of runway left, luckily.
 
I must have a chart posting problem \

The data shows dissolved water solubility of various hydrocarbons vs temperature, and how the solubility goes down with cold temperatures. The snow described above could be seen in a large fruit jar of sampled FBO gasoline that had been chilled.

A very small amount of automotive isopropyl alcohol cleared it up. Only a quick gurgle of yellow can HEET back then. I think it should be added just before flight,

I understand isopropyl HEET is red now?
 
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Hi Guys! As an update, it looks like my bladder type tank has some sort of wrinkles on the bottom, that is keeping condensation water from the night to just slide down to the draining area.

thats why water only appears after flying (where I really rock the wings during turns)
 
Hi Guys! As an update, it looks like my bladder type tank has some sort of wrinkles on the bottom, that is keeping condensation water from the night to just slide down to the draining area.

thats why water only appears after flying (where I really rock the wings during turns)
Don't assume condensation. The fuel you're getting needs a good checking. There is no way that amount of water accumulates as condensation in such a short period.
 
Clearly not
The 150's tanks are almost flat-bottomed, with a slight depression near the fuel outlet to the engine. The sump is in a higher spot in the back corner. Unless the airplane is sitting tail-low, water can remain in the tank.

In the OP's airplane, which has rubber bladders, water gets trapped behind wrinkles across the bladder's bottom and doesn't drain to the sump. Those wrinkles typically run diagonally across the tank, inboard front to outboard aft, forming dams. Cessna sells a kit to move the sump drain valve inboard and aft to pull those wrinkles out, but old bladders are stiff and don't comply too well.

Fuel bladder AD and inspection
In 1984 AD 84-10-01 was issued; it was later revised. The current AD is 84-10-01R1. This AD was written because there was a series of engine power interruptions soon after takeoff in fuel bladder-equipped Cessnas.

Instead of addressing the cause of the problem—leaking fuel caps—the AD required owners to determine if there were diagonal wrinkles in the bottom surface of the bladders. Water, let in by the leaking caps, would “hide” behind the wrinkles while the tanks were being sumped.

The owner, thinking his tanks were full of good fuel, would take off. When the water jumped over the wrinkle it would be ingested by the engine causing a power loss.

The AD instructed owners that found wrinkles to drain the tanks to determine if the fluid behind the wrinkle was greater than three fluid ounces.

If more than three ounces were found, the AD required that a placard be placed on the panel calling for a procedure where the tail was lowered to within five inches of the ground and the wings moved up and down (a total of 10 inches up and 10 inches down, at least 12 times; the famous “rock and roll” preflight procedure) until no more water was being sumped out of the tank.

The AD mandated a modification to the fuel tank sump drain valve on each tank. The details of this procedure are in SE 84-09R2; modification kits SK206-24 and -25 sell for around $800 each.

The AD also required the installation of small diameter raised-lip fuel caps (SK182-85B) or an alternate method of compliance. The Monarch-style caps mentioned above are the best solution.

From https://www.cessnaflyer.org/cessna-.../1034-inspection-tips-for-the-cessna-182.html

Edit: This bladder-wrinkle problem is so severe that even in the taildraggers, 180s and 185s, it causes problems.

The Cessna 150/152 problem, I believe, is because Cessna carried the 120/140 tanks into the 150. The taildraggers naturally got the water to migrate to the sump drain in spite of the shallow low spot near the fuel outlet. Making a trike of the airplane should have mandated a different tank configuration, but it was overlooked or something, and now we have a problem.
Those tanks were smooth aluminum, not rubber that easily wrinkles.
 
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The “ Rock n Roll “ Dan described is extremely effective in removing water.

It entails more than just wiggling the wings and best done by 2 people.

Note: This is less than encouraging to passengers.

I disagree with the AD providing terminating action via improved caps and kits.

If water is introduced via poor fueling procedures the caps will do nothing.

There is no cost involved with the “Rock n Roll” and very little time.

Addressing the issue via the AD is very important.

One guy checked sumps and took a short flight.

Next flight the engine quit on TO and it wound up on the railroad track!

There are oversized strainers and under-floor Sump tanks that are quite

effective in addressing large amounts of water.

I commend the OP for pursuing this.

It has been many years since the problem first came to light and many folks

are unfamiliar with the issue.

Even if the “Killer Caps” have been replaced the “R & R” will alert you as

to what is actually trapped in the wrinkles.

The “ Belt & Suspenders” approach could possibly save a life.
 
The 150's tanks are almost flat-bottomed, with a slight depression near the fuel outlet to the engine. The sump is in a higher spot in the back corner. Unless the airplane is sitting ..................

Exact same problem. Water trapped in the bottom of the tank. Is why is Bill Barton invented his polymer tanks. He told me that he never made any money, but that a friend died of water contamination.
 
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