VOR issue in my new airplane.

itsjames2011

itsjames2011

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
165
Location
Chicopee MA
Display Name
Display name:
James
Hey everyone,

First things first, I bought my first airplane today. She is a 1965 Cherokee 140 with the 160HP STC upgrade and 525 hours since manufacturer overhaul(done @ Lycoming). I'm completely stoked, this is a dream come true for me!

2jexvr5.jpg

wclglf.jpg


Anyways, the issue is as follows:

I have a KX175B Nav/Comm linked to a KI-214 and my radials are showing about 15 degrees off course. I know some radios have a button you can hold and the needle is supposed to go to center and of it doesn't, there is a screw pot you can adjust.

I was wondering if anyone on here was familiar with this radio setup that can point me in the right direction. One person I talked to seemed to think the radio is ok as I can tune and ident and that the problem is most likely in the alignment of the indicator.

Advice/suggestions appreciated!

James
 
FastEddieB said:
Let me play Mr. Obvious...

Two words: Avionics Shop
Click to expand...

I'm so glad you pointed that out as I would have never come to that conclusion on my own. Good thing you're out on the internet solving the worlds problems. :D
 
itsjames2011 said:
I'm so glad you pointed that out as I would have never come to that conclusion on my own. Good thing you're out on the internet solving the worlds problems. :D
Click to expand...

You're welcome!

There's lots of stuff an owner can play at fixing.

Avionics, specifically navigational radios, not so much.

If someone does provide a simple screwdriver solution, I'll consider myself humbled.

Cool plane, BTW!
 
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FastEddieB said:
You're welcome!

There's lots of stuff an owner can play at fixing.

Avionics, specifically navigational radios, not so much.

If someone does provide a simple screwdriver solution, I'll consider myself humbled.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm just trying to get an idea of what may be the issue. I don't know squat about radios and I'd like to be somewhat informed so I can make an educated assessment of the guy at the avionics shop.
 
Id post on one of the experimental forums, more DIY type folks.
 
Hi james, and welcome.

Unfortunately there is no easy adjustment you can do yourself, you are going to have to take it to a shop if an adjustment is needed. However you can chase the obvious things first. Your vor uses the cat whisker antenna on top of the tail. If you get up on a ladder and take the cap off the vertical stab, you will see where the antenna base catches screws holding it to the airframe. Take that off, clean off the corrosion with some scothbrite, hose it down with corrosion-x and put it back together. Check the antenna cable connection to the antenna. Note that the signal goes through what you would normally call the shield of the coax. Similarly, follow the coax cable through the tail of the airplane. You access this area by removing the hat shelf. There are probably connections in the cable, disconnect each one, clean, corrosion-x.

Behind the panel fine the ground connection from the radios to the airframe. There are probably multiple wires connected to one rusty corroded screw. Clean and re-connect. Remove the radio from the tray, clean the pins with contact cleaner then corrosion-x. Sometimes the king pins get bent and dont make tight contact around the flat part, you'll recognize that when you see it. You can bend them a little with a pick to make better contact.

If you cant find a bad connection anywhere then its time to narrow the problem to the radio or the indicator. Find someone on your field with the same equipment. Swap your radio into his/her airpane and see if it works. Then try your indicator. If you do need to go to a shop, hopefully you can narrow it down to a single box and take only that box to the shop. Good luck.
 
FastEddieB said:
You're welcome!

There's lots of stuff an owner can play at fixing.

Avionics, specifically navigational radios, not so much.

If someone does provide a simple screwdriver solution, I'll consider myself humbled.

Cool plane, BTW!
Click to expand...

Consider yourself humbled, and try not to play expert with not so much information.

The internet is your friend. Google
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=bnOwI9hYtAzF3TC_3k1sdA&bvm=bv.82001339,d.aWw

and look up KI-214.


Remove the OBS knob (allen wrench setscrew). The VOR calibration is through the hollow shaft of the OBS shaft. Don't have a long slot screwdriver to get to it? Get a piece of 1/8" brazing rod and grind a screwdriver slot onto it. Go to an airport with a VOT (108.0 mostly). If you can't find one, find and airport with a VOR test point.

Make sure it is the same error all over the dial. Then adjust it until you can make it as close as you can on both TO and FROM on the same indicator.

Now come on over to the MAINTENANCE group on this board. Lots of new airplane owners that we can help do "owner maintenance" and save you a bundle.

Happy to help.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Consider yourself humbled, and try not to play expert with not so much information.

The internet is your friend. Google
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=bnOwI9hYtAzF3TC_3k1sdA&bvm=bv.82001339,d.aWw

and look up KI-214.


Remove the OBS knob (allen wrench setscrew). The VOR calibration is through the hollow shaft of the OBS shaft. Don't have a long slot screwdriver to get to it? Get a piece of 1/8" brazing rod and grind a screwdriver slot onto it. Go to an airport with a VOT (108.0 mostly). If you can't find one, find and airport with a VOR test point.

Make sure it is the same error all over the dial. Then adjust it until you can make it as close as you can on both TO and FROM on the same indicator.

Now come on over to the MAINTENANCE group on this board. Lots of new airplane owners that we can help do "owner maintenance" and save you a bundle.

Happy to help.

Jim
Click to expand...

Now that's some quality advise right there!
 
JHW said:
Hi james, and welcome.

Unfortunately there is no easy adjustment you can do yourself, you are going to have to take it to a shop if an adjustment is needed. However you can chase the obvious things first. Your vor uses the cat whisker antenna on top of the tail. If you get up on a ladder and take the cap off the vertical stab, you will see where the antenna base catches screws holding it to the airframe. Take that off, clean off the corrosion with some scothbrite, hose it down with corrosion-x and put it back together. Check the antenna cable connection to the antenna. Note that the signal goes through what you would normally call the shield of the coax. Similarly, follow the coax cable through the tail of the airplane. You access this area by removing the hat shelf. There are probably connections in the cable, disconnect each one, clean, corrosion-x.

Behind the panel fine the ground connection from the radios to the airframe. There are probably multiple wires connected to one rusty corroded screw. Clean and re-connect. Remove the radio from the tray, clean the pins with contact cleaner then corrosion-x. Sometimes the king pins get bent and dont make tight contact around the flat part, you'll recognize that when you see it. You can bend them a little with a pick to make better contact.

If you cant find a bad connection anywhere then its time to narrow the problem to the radio or the indicator. Find someone on your field with the same equipment. Swap your radio into his/her airpane and see if it works. Then try your indicator. If you do need to go to a shop, hopefully you can narrow it down to a single box and take only that box to the shop. Good luck.
Click to expand...

A perfect example of chasing your tail spending hours unnecessarily. Come on over to MAINTENANCE and find folks who know what they are talking about.

THanks,

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Consider yourself humbled, and try not to play expert with not so much information.

The internet is your friend. Google
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=bnOwI9hYtAzF3TC_3k1sdA&bvm=bv.82001339,d.aWw

and look up KI-214.


Remove the OBS knob (allen wrench setscrew). The VOR calibration is through the hollow shaft of the OBS shaft. Don't have a long slot screwdriver to get to it? Get a piece of 1/8" brazing rod and grind a screwdriver slot onto it. Go to an airport with a VOT (108.0 mostly). If you can't find one, find and airport with a VOR test point.

Make sure it is the same error all over the dial. Then adjust it until you can make it as close as you can on both TO and FROM on the same indicator.

Now come on over to the MAINTENANCE group on this board. Lots of new airplane owners that we can help do "owner maintenance" and save you a bundle.

Happy to help.

Jim
Click to expand...
Jim,
I can't thank you enough for the information you provided. There is a VOT over at KORH which is only 15 miles from my home base. I'm going to fly over there tomorrow and calibrate it on the ramp. Will post a report as soon as I am done. I have a feeling that will probably solve it because it seems to be off the same number of degrese regardless of which VOR station/radial I am tracking.
 
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itsjames2011 said:
Jim,
I can't thank you enough for the information you provided.
Click to expand...

Sure you can. You can find out what is true, what is useful, and what works. You can then post to other folks who have the same problem that you found, what works, and what to look out for. That is how we all get through this life.

You can also read a couple of things that will help you with your flying career and with maintenance, both by Richard Bach ...

"School For Perfection"

and

"Found at Pharisee"

believe what he writes ... as valid today as when he wrote them in the '60s.

Jim
 
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itsjames2011 said:
Hey everyone,

2jexvr5.jpg

wclglf.jpg
Click to expand...

There is one major problem with your airplane!!!

You don't have an RST Engineering audio panel.

(Just kidding). You bought an absolutely beautiful airplane. See you at Oshkosh next year? If so, I want you in my avionics seminar or you are dead meat!!!

Have fun; the only thing better than your first airplane is your first wife ... and I'm not so sure about that :goofy:

(Honey, just stop yelling at me, I didn't really mean it :lol:)

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
There is one major problem with your airplane!!!

You don't have an RST Engineering audio panel.

(Just kidding). You bought an absolutely beautiful airplane. See you at Oshkosh next year? If so, I want you in my avionics seminar or you are dead meat!!!

Have fun; the only thing better than your first airplane is your first wife ... and I'm not so sure about that :goofy:

(Honey, just stop yelling at me, I didn't really mean it :lol:)

Jim
Click to expand...
Oshkosh and Sun N' Fun are both on my list for this year. I've even already arranged the time away from work :D
 
James331 said:
Now that's some quality advise right there!
Click to expand...

I have come to the conclusion that QUALITY advice is the only kind of advice that Weirdjim puts forth. I have also come to the conclusion that the only thing weird about Weirdjim is the word "weird" in his moniker.

BTW, to the OP, nice plane. Congratulations.
 
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I'm humbled.

I just did not expect such a simple, mechanical solution to an avionics issue.

Good info, good job.

As an aside, one reason I jumped so quickly to "avionics shop" is that I don't think avionics repair falls under the "preventive maintenance" provisions of the FAR's. But that's another issue unrelated to the actual method of repair.
 
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I have no avionics experience, but my education is electronics as well as much of my career before getting into the software side of things. As a disclaimer, my experience was mostly digital electronics as opposed to radio type work. Speaking not from an aircraft regulation standpoint, rather from an electronics standpoint, what Jim described would not fall under the category of repair. It would be considered alignment or adjustment.

Given that the operator is responsible for checking and logging the VOR check periodically, it stands to reason that he should be allowed to adjust anything accessible from the instrument panel. It might very well be that in the aircraft/FAA world I am completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time that common sense conflicted with FAR's.
 
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You're probably not supposed to fix the stupid VSI that always shows a 100 fpm descent either, but I personally know a Leatherman tool that has now claimed responsibility for being a VSI terrorist across a wide range of rentals, now that his owner no longer flies rentals.
 
FastEddieB said:
As an aside, one reason I jumped so quickly to "avionics shop" is that I don't think avionics repair falls under the "preventive maintenance" provisions of the FAR's. But that's another issue unrelated to the actual method of repair.
Click to expand...

Ah, the twin pitchforks of technical issues versus legal issues. I dispensed technical information that I believed to be correct and which would solve the problem. As to the legal issues, I defer to those with AIRCRAFT LEGAL experience, not the "hangar lawyers" that spew barf all over this group.

I would then answer it this way from that point of view ... "I have this friend Ernie that has an airplane with a VOR that is 15d off around the dial. I want to tell him how to fix it. Of course, I would never THINK of doing an adjustment that may or may not be legal; I just want to know what to tell Ernie."

And, as Denver says, many a Leatherman tool has adjusted VSI to be right on the money as well as the Kollsman window in the altimeter to be spot on, but I would never THINK of doing such a thing.

To Doc, I say that the weird in jim is a play on my last name. Look at my sig.

Jim

 
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MBDiagMan said:
Given that the operator is responsible for checking and logging the VOR check periodically, it stands to reason that he should be allowed to adjust anything accessible from the instrument panel. It might very well be that in the aircraft/FAA world I am completely wrong. It wouldn't be the first time that common sense conflicted with FAR's.
Click to expand...
The FAA doesn't see it that way. Adjusting "a system used in an aircraft for en route or approach navigation" requires an FAA repair station certificate with Radio Class 2 rating -- not even your local A&P is allowed to do that. So, while an owner/pilot might be able to do what Jim suggested, it would not be legal for him/her to do that. Ditto Jim doing it, unless he holds such a certificate as well as an A&P.

And there's no assurance that this will fix it, either, so the OP should be prepared to take the airplane to an avionics shop and explain clearly what's happening without trying to tell the shop how to fix it.
 
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I've already stepped on my d*ck at least once already in this thread, but...

To the OP - Are you instument rated or do you plan on using the plane for intrument training?

I ask because my plane only has a handheld GPS and for VFR use its really all I need.

If the repair did turn costly (not just an OBS knob that came loose) not sure I would even bother fixing it.

Just a thought.
 
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weirdjim said:
Ah, the twin pitchforks of technical issues versus legal issues. I dispensed technical information that I believed to be correct and which would solve the problem. As to the legal issues, I defer to those with AIRCRAFT LEGAL experience, not the "hangar lawyers" that spew barf all over this group.

I would then answer it this way from that point of view ... "I have this friend Ernie that has an airplane with a VOR that is 15d off around the dial. I want to tell him how to fix it. Of course, I would never THINK of doing an adjustment that may or may not be legal; I just want to know what to tell Ernie."

And, as Denver says, many a Leatherman tool has adjusted VSI to be right on the money as well as the Kollsman window in the altimeter to be spot on, but I would never THINK of doing such a thing.

To Doc, I say that the weird in jim is a play on my last name. Look at my sig.

Jim
Click to expand...

:rofl: When you want to see someone overlook the obvious, just leave it to me. I have a bad habit of only hitting the high spots when I'm reading. Comforting though to know that you're not actually weird.:)
 
FastEddieB said:
I've already stepped on my d*ck at least once already in this thread, but...



To the OP - Are you instument rated or do you plan on using the plane for intrument training?



I ask because my plane only has a handheld GPS and for VFR use its really all I need.



If the repair did turn costly (not just an OBS knob that came loose) not sure I would even bother fixing it.



Just a thought.
Click to expand...


I am going to use the airplane for my instrument rating. Should be starting that in the next week or two. The reason I wanted to just realign the VoR indicator was that it's not worth investing the money in it when it's being replaced with a 430W In a few weeks...

I tend to fly VFR by VoRs/NDBs rather than the gps, it gives me a little bit more to do on long trips :) I do however have ForeFlight with a Stratus II but I prefer to use the onboard navigation equipment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Ron Levy said:
The FAA doesn't see it that way. Adjusting "a system used in an aircraft for en route or approach navigation" requires an FAA repair station certificate with Radio Class 2 rating -- not even your local A&P is allowed to do that. So, while an owner/pilot might be able to do what Jim suggested, it would not be legal for him/her to do that. Ditto Jim doing it, unless he holds such a certificate as well as an A&P.
.
Click to expand...
Pretty confusing since the FAA tells us to adjust the DG every 15 minutes or so to ensure en route navigation is correct.
 
weirdjim said:
So did the brass screwdriver inside the metal tube solve your accuracy problem?

Jim
Click to expand...


I just got the the keys to my new heated hangar today so the ice is finally off of the airplane. I've been stuck on the ground since before I made my initial post. Going to head off to KORH Tomorrow and use their VOT provided the forecast holds decent. As soon as I figure it out you'll be the second person to know.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Heh, about 6 years later and I'm curious how this worked out. I have a KI-214 as well (S/N in the 15,700s if that matters), and I tried this fix but either couldn't find a screwdriver small enough or the pot isn't back there anymore -- no matter how small a screwdriver I could find, nothing would bite. Any advice? I'm thinking about the brazing rod solution next.

Thanks!
 
Drew Mazurek said:
Heh, about 6 years later and I'm curious how this worked out. I have a KI-214 as well (S/N in the 15,700s if that matters), and I tried this fix but either couldn't find a screwdriver small enough or the pot isn't back there anymore -- no matter how small a screwdriver I could find, nothing would bite. Any advice? I'm thinking about the brazing rod solution next.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Same here.
 
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