vision standards

[Rose2012]

Just had my second class exam yesterday (finally!) and am confused about the vision standards.

Long story short, I wear contacts. My right eye is great, but my left one has always been weaker. I am corrected to 20/20 together, sometimes 20/15, so my eye doctor and records say.

Of course yesterday my right was reading 20/20 and my left 20/30. Together I was 20/20. From what I read, this does not meet second class standards because my left is not 20/20 but the AME issued my medical after seeing that I was 20/20 with both eyes together.

What's the deal here with the separate eye standards? Will OKC yank my medical upon review or require a SODA or some such? I seem to remember this happening before, but...it's been a while since my last medical.

 

[bbchien]

You AME is incorrect. You will get a letter to get an opthalmologist eval, accept third class certification, or send in your certificate. The "In each eye separately" requirement is to make sure you have steroscopic vision, near and far.

If you have one eye dominant over the other, you start suppressing the second image, e.g, good eye dominant.

These standards of published. "Separately and in each eye". Your AME will be recieving a "letter of correction". You do appear to meet 3rd class standards.

I keep hollering at airmen/women to go to the Eye person BEFORE you come to me.....

 

[Rose2012]

I keep hollering at airmen/women to go to the Eye person BEFORE you come to me.....

I am 20/20 in each eye separately at the eye doctor every time. Which was two weeks ago in this last case.

 

[bbchien]

I am 20/20 in each eye separately at the eye doctor every time. Which was two weeks ago in this last case.

Have the eye doc so indicate on a 8500-7 attached here. Hurry up and get it faxed into 405-954-4040 before any action occurs. You have about two weeks before you get the letter....make SURE the boxes for near, intermediate and distant vision are filled in on the form. The agency WILL accept it if it is legible, has a date, and a signature.

 

[Rose2012]

Thanks, I'll try that, if he cooperates, of course.

Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening again? I wear torics, which can obviously take a few seconds to stablize. My past AME's were good about letting me do the exam at my pace, letting the lens come back into focus, but not this nurse.

Of course, I may have misunderstood the discussion between him and the nurse to begin with. How do I even know for sure what he actually wrote?

Also, if I accept a third class (which is all I really need), is that considered a denial or deferrment on my next application?

 

[tlglenn]

I get an eye exam from my ophthalmologist every year the month before my second class exam and I have him fill-out and sign the 8500-7 which I bring to my AME.

 

[bbchien]

Thanks, I'll try that, if he cooperates, of course.

Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening again? I wear torics, which can obviously take a few seconds to stablize. My past AME's were good about letting me do the exam at my pace, letting the lens come back into focus, but not this nurse.

Of course, I may have misunderstood the discussion between him and the nurse to begin with. How do I even know for sure what he actually wrote?

Also, if I accept a third class (which is all I really need), is that considered a denial or deferrment on my next application?

To accept a third class you have to write and tell them so.

 

[poadeleted20]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bruce, but nothing says you have to wear your contacts rather than your glasses during the exam -- you are free to use whatever corrective lenses you have (glasses or contacts) when you do the exam with the AME. If you know your vision meets standards both ways, and you know it takes a few minutes for your eyes to adjust after switching, either show up wearing your contacts and take the test that way, or show up wearing your glasses and leave the contacts in your pocket. To my knowledge, nothing says the AME has to test you both ways (glasses and contacts), and they don't have to test you uncorrected unless you want a certificate that doesn't have a corrective lenses limitation.

 

[Rose2012]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bruce, but nothing says you have to wear your contacts rather than your glasses during the exam -- you are free to use whatever corrective lenses you have (glasses or contacts) when you do the exam with the AME. If you know your vision meets standards both ways, and you know it takes a few minutes for your eyes to adjust after switching, either show up wearing your contacts and take the test that way, or show up wearing your glasses and leave the contacts in your pocket. To my knowledge, nothing says the AME has to test you both ways (glasses and contacts), and they don't have to test you uncorrected unless you want a certificate that doesn't have a corrective lenses limitation.

On my first two medicals, I was tested uncorrected. The nurse laughed at me because I couldn't read anything - height of unprofessionalism - but a third class was still issued. Don't know if that was the rule back then or if he just didn't know what he was doing. In my case, glasses don't work for the exam because up until recently I wore RGP's and had spectacle blur.

 

[poadeleted20]

On my first two medicals, I was tested uncorrected. The nurse laughed at me because I couldn't read anything - height of unprofessionalism - but a third class was still issued. Don't know if that was the rule back then or if he just didn't know what he was doing.

It was the rule a long time ago, back when the FAA had uncorrected vision standards for Second and First (20/200 and 20/50, IIRC) and I didn't have even one gray hair, but those standards were deleted many years ago. Today, AFAIK there is no reason for the AME (or his/her staff) to test uncorrected vision unless you want a medical certificate with no corrective lens limitation.

 

[bbchien]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bruce, but nothing says you have to wear your contacts rather than your glasses during the exam -- you are free to use whatever corrective lenses you have (glasses or contacts) when you do the exam with the AME. If you know your vision meets standards both ways, and you know it takes a few minutes for your eyes to adjust after switching, either show up wearing your contacts and take the test that way, or show up wearing your glasses and leave the contacts in your pocket. To my knowledge, nothing says the AME has to test you both ways (glasses and contacts), and they don't have to test you uncorrected unless you want a certificate that doesn't have a corrective lenses limitation.

WE will certify you in any configuration in which you can pass, but it is EACH eye INDIVIDUALLY.

 

[Rose2012]

WE will certify you in any configuration in which you can pass, but it is EACH eye INDIVIDUALLY.

Ok, so my question again is, why would he sign off if I don't meet standards?

Or is it possible I misheard the discussion between him and the nurse? (Well, obviously anything's possible) The nurse made a comment about my vision that I didn't understand (the content, that is, I don't have hearing issues as well!) and he interrupted her to ask me if I'd ever had a SI for my vision, and the nurse jumped back in, pointed at something in the chart, and said, "You interrupted me and I was trying to explain. She does meet the standards." The AME looked more carefully at it then said, "Oh! Ok, you're fine."

Perhaps I'm worrying about nothing, but it was a strange situation. And yes, I was assuming I read the 20/30 line - it's very possible I read the 20/20 and didn't realize it. I just assumed because that eye was fluctuating, I was reading worse than 20/20.

I suppose I'm just rambling now - clearly no one here was there, so no one can tell me exactly what happened. I've tried to call the ophthalmologist, but his office is closed until after the holidays, so we'll see what happens.

 

[bbchien]

I have no idea what he entered into which boxes on the submission. the only way to find out is to get the Blue Ribbon Medical Record. But YOU said, that you were left 20/30. If he entered that, everything I said stands.

 

[Z06_Mir]

Dr. Bruce, this thread brings up a personal question for me too. My eyes are OK, plenty good for 3rd class... but I'm not 20/20. Am I going to need to get corrective lenses before I go for my 2nd class I'd assume? I don't plan on maintaining a 2nd class, but I do want to get my CPL early next year, but not exercise the privileges of it. I've never had corrective lenses.

 

[TMetzinger]

Dr. Bruce, this thread brings up a personal question for me too. My eyes are OK, plenty good for 3rd class... but I'm not 20/20. Am I going to need to get corrective lenses before I go for my 2nd class I'd assume? I don't plan on maintaining a 2nd class, but I do want to get my CPL early next year, but not exercise the privileges of it. I've never had corrective lenses.

You don't need a second class to get a commercial.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[poadeleted20]

You don't need a second class to get a commercial.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

To expand on that, you only need a Third to take the test and get the certificate -- same for ATP. You only need the Second/First to exercise the CP/ATP privileges. See 61.23 and 61.39(a)(4) for details.