Virtual reality in simulators

Morgan3820

Morgan3820

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Setting up an X-plane sim. Started to wonder if anyone has used virtual reality in a simulator or any games. If so what has been you experience?
 
Not yet, but soon. I just upgraded from a GTX 780ti to the 1080ti FTW3 and I'm looking forward to VR. I'm sorta holding out until Laminar releases their VR update which will have native support. That way I'll avoid using another third-party plugin, like FlyInside. Did you see the demo video they did for FlightSimCon a couple of months ago? Looks really promising.
 
I had an Oculus Rift for awhile. Was fun to mess around with but it would make me nauseous after about 10 mins. Also was challenging to read the gauges and what not. I'll pick up the next generation of VR and give it another go.
 
I've used an 'immersive display' helmet and augmented reality displays but there are always issues with switches and hardware and stuff. Best sims I've flown had wraparound projected displays (up to full-dome) with hardware cockpits. I'll still get an Oculus Rift or equivalent one of these days, though.

Nauga,
WSTfully
 
OkieAviator said:
I had an Oculus Rift for awhile. Was fun to mess around with but it would make me nauseous after about 10 mins. Also was challenging to read the gauges and what not. I'll pick up the next generation of VR and give it another go.
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Which version? DK1, DK2 or CV1 and what were your PC specs?
Low frame rate contributes to the issue from what I've read, as well as the limitations of the initial releases (development kits).
 
DK2 and a fairly beefy computer. Will wait until next generation and then see.
 
OkieAviator said:
DK2 and a fairly beefy computer. Will wait until next generation and then see.
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Yeah if I were an early adopter, I'd probably wait as well, especially after shelling out those prices! However, since I wasn't ready (needed to build my new PC), I decided to wait. Now that I have built it, there is no reason to put it off any longer, especially at the current entry price point ($400 summer sale). I was going to wait until LR releases their native VR update, but that was until reading about the "summer sale" yesterday! Time to press that "BUY NOW" button:). Now I'm even happier that I held out back in October, when I was going to treat myself to a birthday gift (PC wasn't built yet). Saved myself 200 bucks.
Plus, I don't have the patience to wait until 2019 for the CV2 to become available.
Here's a comparison from a guy who has experience with both.

"As someone who is just out of the IPD range for DK2, all DK2s I have tried always felt very restricting. The center of the FOV seems pretty clear, but everything around was rather blurry. Even though the CV1 I tried didn't have IPD adjustment yet, I did not see that blurriness in CV1 at all, the whole FOV felt much more open and sharp. In addition to visuals, of comfort was the next biggest improvement imo, DK2 always felt like a rather heavy box on my face, while CV1 didn't. CV1 just felt natural, like a part of my skull.
Furthermore tracking felt better and it was overall a much more satifying experience and I didn't feel dizzy at all after my CV1 demo, while every time I used a DK2 or HD prototype, I felt dizzy afterwards."
 
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Morgan3820 said:
Setting up an X-plane sim. Started to wonder if anyone has used virtual reality in a simulator or any games. If so what has been you experience?
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Here's a review from Amazon. Looks like he is pleased with the experience. I'm particularly interested in two aspects, XP11 and DCS World. Mainly the A10C, P51D and F/A-18C when it's released! Been dreaming of the Hornet in VR ever since the days of Jane's F/A-18.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...f=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B073X8N1YW
Literally a game changer, August 12, 2017

"So how does it perform? Like a dream. For my original intended purpose of flight sims, it is spectacular. Apart from using a full motion platform, this is the most immersive thing you could do for a flight sim. You get a sense of position within the aircraft, which also helps give a sense of position of the aircraft, which is extremely useful for me flying helicopters. The first time I picked up in the Huey in DCS:World, I felt the same butterflies in my stomach I get when I ride in a real helicopter. Watching the ground drift away from you is amazing. Looking down and really seeing the depth of everything.
Now, obviously I wasn't going to constrain myself to only using the Rift for flight sims, so I have been playing around with different games, both free, and some that I have purchased. The introductory demo for Oculus was actually pretty fantastic, with quite a bit to mess around with. Lucky's Tale takes a platformer a la Mario 64, and puts you right above the action, able to move around it freely. It really shows how VR can be utilized to enhance more traditional games, rather than just for first person experiences. Robo Recall amps up the action, and makes you feel like you are in a twist between iRobot, the new Total Recall, and The Matrix. The sense of presence, and the physics make the game a blast to play. Last, I picked up Onward and Hotdogs, Horseshoes, and Hand Grenades to have some gun play. Onward is great, and really put me in the game. Having to actually reload your weapon rather than just pressing "X" adds to the tension, especially when you are running a machine gun that requires a bit more work to reload. Being able to duck (or even go prone) behind cover, or lean around corners and doors, made everything feel intuitive, though the locomotion controls take a little while to get used to, and cause a little vertigo at first.

All in all, I am really happy with this purchase. Yes, there is some screen door effect, but that is going to be there with any of the current VR headsets. I doubt it will change much until we have HMD's with a higher pixel per inch count and resolution, which will undoubtedly require more powerful hardware to run. So this is the perfect point to jump in and see if you are going to enjoy VR."
 
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I've done it in FSX with the combination of TrackIR and TrinusVR apps. Works pretty well unless you have a setup like mine that has all sorts of hardware. Great for goofing off, not much beyond that I'm afraid.

Would love to play X-Wing or something with that setup tho...
 
These guys (Bohemia Interactive, makers of the ARMA3 game) are developing a VR flight simulator for commercial use and the military. What caught my attention is, it will be using the same HMDs that we have access to. For "serious" training, not just goofing off, lol.

https://bisimulations.com/content/t...ht-simulator-itec-2016-and-sea-air-space-2016

"With a synthetic environment generated by VBS Blue, the VR flight simulator will combine the D-BOX Motion-Cueing System and a Vesaro simulator with the Oculus Rift CV1 to provide a highly immersive training environment. An integrated Leap Motion sensor will enable users to freely interact with a highly detailed virtual crewstation that simulates the job performance environment. The avionics, weapon systems and flight models of an F-18 will be simulated by the Flex-Air application from SA Simulations."
 
So with VR and FSX, would one be able to look left and right and over their shoulder to get a sense of position in the air relative to ground objects (like runway for one)?
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
So with VR and FSX, would one be able to look left and right and over their shoulder to get a sense of position in the air relative to ground objects (like runway for one)?
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Yes I do it now with TrackIR.
 
Yes I've used TrackIR for a few years now, over a couple of versions. It has provided the most immersion of any other peripheral in my setup, followed by my HOTAS. It does have it's limitations as far as tracking and losing position if you turn your head too much. You can adjust the settings to allow a wider range of movement in the cockpit, but it doesn't actually translate into a 1 to 1 experience like the VR headset does. But it's the best thing for situational awareness on a 2D monitor. I have the 'pause' and 'centering' commands mapped to my joystick and yoke (depending on which one I'm using). That way I can re-center the view when needed, and pause it as necessary (such as in IMC). Works great.
 
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I've been messing with X-Plane 11 and loaded something called Xcamera. Allows to have a pilots view with track IR and then I set up various panel, pedestal, over switches etc that are locked in a view with track IR off. This makes it easy to click stuff with the mouse.

I tend to not really shoot for immersion since it's obvious I'm flying a computer game when playing.
 
OkieAviator said:
I tend to not really shoot for immersion since it's obvious I'm flying a computer game when playing.
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I can understand that on one level, if you're just 'gaming'. But even then, what I meant by immersion is, I don't want to be fumbling with a joystick button or mouse to look around. It's just not natural. After all, even when I'm just playing around in DCS A10C, P51D or X-Plane, I'm attempting to "simulate" real world flying.

A VR HMD will only enhance the experience, I'm sure. With TrackIR, you can't REALLY look over your shoulder (such as flying a traffic pattern or checking your 6:D), because you're limited to a small FOV while still looking forward at a monitor (or three in my case) on your desk.
 
I do tend to put my fake flying into two different categories. One is when I load something up and mess around, ie take the F18 and somehow go Mach 3 or the BF109 and fly that around. That's more of the video gaming thing and I bet a VR headset would be pretty cool assuming the graphics, frame rates ect are improved.

The other is more of the simulator thing where I'll load up an IFR flight and fly it complete with using my EFB, ect. I find that extremely useful to real work flying since out of 400 hours I only have about 20 real IMC. Not sure how you would do that with a headset unless you somehow write clearances or can pull readable charts up in the game and not take the headset off.

What I don't do typically is use checklists, taxi, preflights or any W&B stuff. When I think immersion I typically think of people doing those things.

I also replaced my yoke and throttle controls with a HOTAS joystick for the reasons you said above. It's not 'realistic' for me but it's much easier to map things to the joystick then try and mess with the keyboard or turn dials with the mouse as you're flying.
 
I have the HTC vive and have used it to play Elite Dangerous (a space simulator) and also War Thunder (a simulator/arcade air combat game). What I have noticed is that the immersion is really cool and hugely enhanced my video game experience. I did not feel any sort of nausea in the listed games. The downside of the HTC Vive is that as you use your eye movement to look around, things outside of the center of view start to get out of focus. It can be difficult to read text and numbers. So while the graphics and experience can be stunning, I find the fine detail to be lacking.

So for trying to learn instrument procedures or anything else that requires focus on your instruments, charts or text/numbers - I think the HTC vive could present a problem.

The other problem comes from UI. If you have that headset on, your visual perspective is within the virtual world. My setup (idk if others can allow this) does not include my hands and other real world user interface (joystick, throttle, keyboard, mouse, etc...) within the virtual world. Therefore, until you spend a whole lot of time with your particular setup in the virtual world - it is clunky and involves quite a bit of fumbling around to navigate the various user interfaces that you use in the real world.
 
My buddy bought an HTC Vive to play Elite Dangerous. I played it for a bit and did so multitasking.. might have enjoyed it more with the headset cause that game got boring fast. Now Warthunder.... I may have sunk thousands of hours into that game. Favorite is the Tier 2/3 stuff.
 
I've done a Rift with DCS A-10. It was awesome and also disappointing at the sametime. Until the resolution, field of view, and frame rate vastly increases I'll still get headaches and eye strain.
 
I've been a little under the weather, so the Rift sat in it's box for a day after it arrived. Starting to feel better, so last night I decided to set it up and give it a go. Strangely, the first thing I tried was Google Earth VR, which was pretty cool. I'll probably download the included games at some point, but y'all know what I was most interested in. The P51D.

When I loaded it up in DCS and found myself in that cramped cockpit, I was absolutely blown away! This thing is incredible. The sense of actually being inside is something you can't imagine until you've experienced it. The instrument panel just pops out at you. The scale of everything feels right. No 2D monitor could ever do it justice. Although I've never been in a real Mustang (my only tail dragger experience is the Super Decathlon), your height above the runway feels real! My takeoffs were decent and my landings (3 point) were even better because you get a real sense of height above the runway.

I agree, the resolution of the instruments needs to improve, but overall it's not that bad. I can definitely read the gauges. Looking out at the wings and that huge prop is amazing. No dizziness or nausea after a couple of hours of messing around and 'attempting' a dogfight, but it will take awhile to get used to the sensations. Probably less if you've done any real world aerobatics. My last acro was a couple of years ago.

Today I will take the A-10 up for a spin and soon the Bell 407 in X-Plane11. When X-Plane releases their native VR support, it should make things easier, especially for serious practice.
In my opinion, VR is the game-changer that flight simulators have been waiting for.
 
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Update:
Just re-downloaded the Navada map for DCS World and took the Mustang for a quick spin from McCarran over the Vegas strip and landed at Nellis. WOW! The sense of realism is incredible. I know I sound like a kid in a candy store, but this is freakin awesome! Holy cow, VR can only get better from here.

This is probably the closest I'll ever get to flying the real Mustang...I'm sold:)
 
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OkieAviator said:
I do tend to put my fake flying into two different categories. One is when I load something up and mess around, ie take the F18 and somehow go Mach 3 or the BF109 and fly that around. That's more of the video gaming thing and I bet a VR headset would be pretty cool assuming the graphics, frame rates ect are improved.

The other is more of the simulator thing where I'll load up an IFR flight and fly it complete with using my EFB, ect. I find that extremely useful to real work flying since out of 400 hours I only have about 20 real IMC. Not sure how you would do that with a headset unless you somehow write clearances or can pull readable charts up in the game and not take the headset off.

What I don't do typically is use checklists, taxi, preflights or any W&B stuff. When I think immersion I typically think of people doing those things.

I also replaced my yoke and throttle controls with a HOTAS joystick for the reasons you said above. It's not 'realistic' for me but it's much easier to map things to the joystick then try and mess with the keyboard or turn dials with the mouse as you're flying.
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So, after a few weeks of messing around in VR (roughly 10 hours or so), I've come to realize your point. X-plane still hasn't come out with native VR support (yet) and the 3rd party plugin (FlyInside) performs too poorly for me to be acceptable, (and that's on my high-end PC, overclocked to 5ghz)!

Even when XP11 becomes VR complete, I doubt I will be able to achieve complete sim flights, without using my hardware switches, panels, efb, etc. that I've setup over the years. Probably at some point, but not for awhile.

That said, I'm having a blast in DCS World! The A-10C and Huey are incredible and I'm getting very smooth, good performance overall. The ability to put the helicopter down exactly where you want to, is so much easier in VR. Hovering, landing on rooftops, flying into open hangars and making a 180, etc. Firing rockets/machine guns and blowing **** up with the Huey gunship, while your door-gunners engage, is incredibly fun :D. I need to fly this thing a little better so they survive longer under fire. Door gunners keep getting shot by ground fire!

Another bonus of the rift (which I was unaware of at first) is the built-in mic. There's a nice little program called Voice Attack, which allows you to give verbal commands to your wingmen, contact ATC, control aircraft systems, etc.

So, overall, I am very happy with my purchase of the Oculus Rift CV1. And I haven't even tried any other VR titles yet.

Oh yeah, VR sickness is a real phenomenon, lol.
First flight, no problem. Second time, took on too much and started feeling a little dizzy and weird:eek:. Took a break and came back a couple of days later. Played short sessions (no more than 20 mins at a time). After a few flights, I had my "VR legs".
Lesson: Take it easy at first!
 
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I tried TrackIR and VR in FSX and P3D. No comparison for sure. Seeing the lint fly in the cockpit in 3D in front of the gauges and being able to look at wings and check flap deployment (and test flight controls), that's the cherry on top of the cake.
Sitting firmly on a chair with a joystick in front of me and throttle to the left allowed me to feel like I was sitting in the virtual airplane. So no vertigo or spacial disorientation. Though I didn't do any spins.

Now as far as choppers go, I recommend strongly against VR helmets. Unless you have a barf bag on you. ;)
 
Flight sims are going to need 4K goggles. I've played a lot at 1080 (HTC and PSVR) and small text is hard to read. The thing is, VR is so much fun cheesy graphics don't matter so much. So maybe you won't be able to tell if the fuel tanks are 1/4 tank or empty, just keep flying till she runs out.
 
BigBadLou said:
I tried TrackIR and VR in FSX and P3D. No comparison for sure. Seeing the lint fly in the cockpit in 3D in front of the gauges and being able to look at wings and check flap deployment (and test flight controls), that's the cherry on top of the cake.
Sitting firmly on a chair with a joystick in front of me and throttle to the left allowed me to feel like I was sitting in the virtual airplane. So no vertigo or spacial disorientation. Though I didn't do any spins.

Now as far as choppers go, I recommend strongly against VR helmets. Unless you have a barf bag on you. ;)
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Yeah sitting in the A-10 cockpit is simply mind blowing! You really get a sense of how incredibly well modeled it is and the amount of detail that went into the programming of it. With the TrackIR and a 2D monitor, you never get a true sense of how far the cockpit is forward of the wings. In VR you really have to look over your shoulder to see the wings, which adds to the immersion when checking the flight controls and extending the speed brakes. Turning your body all the way around to see the engines spool up, is so cool.

As far as helicopters, I have no issues flying the Huey, but that may be due to the fact that I got through the initial stage of VR sickness before. In fact, I was actually in the Mustang when I started to feel it coming on. Also, the fact that I pushed the limits and decided to do a few spins didn't help, but damn it was fun:D.

Recently took the base plate off of my Warthog stick and mounted it to the chair along with the throttle and attached an iPad holder to the right side.
Works great as a mouse pad. My Gametrix JetSeat cushion should be here in a few days. That will add vibration effects via eight vibrating motors connected through USB.
Now I'm eager to try a racing car sim/game like Project Cars 2.
HOTAS.png
 
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