Virgin American: best Airline, United: Worst.

Starting last year I opted for a true competitors of the airlines, rail. I took 4 trips on Amtrak. Most were between Chicago and Kansas City, a 7 hour ride. Airlines it is a 5 hour flight when considers all the extra hurry up and wait. Plus when I am on the train I get still work. I did take one long overnight trip to/from New Orleans. Yep it was longer, cost wise was about $50 more than the airlines and zero hassle factor. Very relaxing and I had a great time. So far this year I have already used Amtrak once and have another trip to New Orleans booked for later this year.

That's great ! Amtrak is a government subsidized entity. Glad you liked it. Imagine if it became de-regulated and started to have competition ? What do you think ALL the train lines would become like in a short amount of time ????? What can we learn from this parallel when we also consider that just about every foreign airline that we like so much is also subsidized in one form or another ?
 
I would suggest that the distance from O'Hare to downtown Chicago is every bit as far, if not in distance, then in time.
CTA Blue Line is pretty fast, but yeah, driving stinks. I live in the oposite direction and it still takes an hour drive to KORD. What really stinks is that the Metra does not connect very well to O'Hare. The purple line does have a station in the remote parking lot. But that train only runs M-F and it is into the city in the mornings and out of the city in the evenings. Not set up real good for people wishing to use it to get to the airport. I live on the yellow Metra line (UP-NW). To get to O'Hare I have to go past it to Jefferson Park and then take CTA back to the airport. But alas, Metra does not like to stop at Jefferson Park in the mornings, they are running express trains into downtown then. Bad mass transit design. But that is not too unusual for the US. Other countries seem to have figured out how to make it all work together.
 
That's great ! Amtrak is a government subsidized entity. Glad you liked it. Imagine if it became de-regulated and started to have competition ? What do you think ALL the train lines would become like in a short amount of time ?????
Out of business. That is what was happening when the gov stepped into save rail travel.


What can we learn from this parallel when we also consider that just about every foreign airline that we like so much is also subsidized in one form or another ?
Well we deregulated air travel in this country a while ago. I sure do not hear the customers lauding any increase in service. I all I hear is complaints. Plus even though it was deregulated the gov had to pay the airlines to fly into the rural areas. I wonder if it would have been cheaper then to build a hub and spoke system that had high speed rail as an integral part?
 
Out of business. That is what was happening when the gov stepped into save rail travel.


Well we deregulated air travel in this country a while ago. I sure do not hear the customers lauding any increase in service. I all I hear is complaints. Plus even though it was deregulated the gov had to pay the airlines to fly into the rural areas. I wonder if it would have been cheaper then to build a hub and spoke system that had high speed rail as an integral part?

We can't pay our bills as it is right now. What makes you think we could afford that ? How bankrupt do you want your grandchildren to be ?
 
Well we deregulated air travel in this country a while ago. I sure do not hear the customers lauding any increase in service. I all I hear is complaints.

People voted with their wallets. Some are whining but they get what they pay for.

If they want service try Net Jets or whoever. ;)
 
We can't pay our bills as it is right now. What makes you think we could afford that ? How bankrupt do you want your grandchildren to be ?
We can't?

Who aren't we paying?

All I am saying is that we can re-prioritize what we want and work together to achieve it and there are other choice the crowded death tubes. Not flying is a good choice from time to time, it will help the airlines realize that they need to improve service, they all SUCK! I won't get into budget priorities other than to say that our are screwed up and it is not because of social security or medicare. Look at the budget. Consider that we spent more in Iraq in a few years than what we spent on NASA since 1958.

There are better ways than just having airlines running all over the place. They have shown that it is not economically feasible to have planes going to some of these smaller communities. High speed rail is nice and it is great for moderate distance travel allowing for innercity to innercity travel. Many other countries have shown how partnerships between government and private business with a real vision of transport can work. Just look at Japan! Awesome rail and plane travel. I can land outside of Tokyo and be in Fukuoka in a few hours without having to take a taxi anywhere but the last mile or two form the rail station.
 
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We can't?

Who aren't we paying?

All I am saying is that we can re-prioritize what we want and work together to achieve it and there are other choice the crowded death tubes. Not flying is a good choice from time to time, it will help the airlines realize that they need to improve service, they all SUCK! I won't get into budget priorities other than to say that our are screwed up and it is not because of social security or medicare. Look at the budget. Consider that we spent more in Iraq in a few years than what we spent on NASA since 1958.

There are better ways than just having airlines running all over the place. They have shown that it is not economically feasible to have planes going to some of these smaller communities. High speed rail is nice and it is great for moderate distance travel allowing for innercity to innercity travel. Many other countries have shown how partnerships between government and private business with a real vision of transport can work. Just look at Japan! Awesome rail and plane travel. I can land outside of Tokyo and be in Fukuoka in a few hours without having to take a taxi anywhere but the last mile or two form the rail station.

What do you want the airlines to do?

They get you to your destination.

They can't change the weather, and it's not their fault if some annoying a-hole sits next to you

Everyone wants value, so the only way they can make any money is to fill the planes up.
 
Out of business. That is what was happening when the gov stepped into save rail travel.
All they did was transfer the deficits from private companies to the taxpayer. Yay!
Well we deregulated air travel in this country a while ago. I sure do not hear the customers lauding any increase in service. I all I hear is complaints.
Yeah, flying was a lot nicer back then. Most people couldn't afford it, so it kept the riff raff off the plane. Airfares were sky high and set by the government, so airlines competed on service, meals, and cuteness of flight attendants.
Much of the old flying experience is still available, pay the inflation-adjusted equivalent and fly in first. Or pay an inflation-adjusted fraction of the old price, and fly coach.

Pay for the level of service you want. Isn't the market great?!
Plus even though it was deregulated the gov had to pay the airlines to fly into the rural areas. I wonder if it would have been cheaper then to build a hub and spoke system that had high speed rail as an integral part?
No. Rail requires a certain level of population density to be feasible. We don't have that in most of the country.
You can have the government fund it and select the routes, and you end up like California, getting ready to spend billions on a high speed rail line that connects no major population centers, and will have no reason for anyone to ride it. Yay!
SanJose Mercury News said:
Contractors submitted bids last month to design and build the first 30-mile stretch of track for the bullet train, a section that is expected to cost $1.8 billion. The first full segment of the system will run from Madera to Bakersfield
The first 30 miles in an area no one travels, and $2 billion for the 30 miles of a supposed 800 mile line. That math isn't looking good for anyone. And they're starting in the middle, rather than one end or the other, so when the money runs out, the already built line won't connect to anything. What could go wrong?
Oh yeah, construction is supposed to start in 4 months, and the state hasn't bought any of the land. Great!

The govt subsidizes rural air because it is uneconomical for airlines to fly to Dodge City, Kansas, or Pierre, SD, and Congress decided it was in the political interest of congressmen vital national interest of the country to maintain rural air service. So they subsidized it
And if they didn't, there wouldn't be ANY flights into John Murtha Memorial Airport in middle-of-nowhere Pennsylvania (which was also built with your tax dollars, and needed flights to justify its existence).

Yeah, I'm crabby today.
 
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All they did was transfer the deficits from private companies to the taxpayer. Yay!

Yeah, flying was a lot nicer back then. Most people couldn't afford it, so it kept the riff raff off the plane. Airfares were sky high and set by the government, so airlines competed on service, meals, and cuteness of flight attendants.
Much of the old flying experience is still available, pay the inflation-adjusted equivalent and fly in first. Or pay an inflation-adjusted fraction of the old price, and fly coach.

Pay for the level of service you want. Isn't the market great?!

N
I hear what you are saying. I don't disagree with all that you wrote, but the ability to even buy service that we used to get just isn't possible anymore, even in adjusted dollars.

I flew first in the old days pre-deregulation and now. Paying for first now gets you what coach was 30 years ago for service. You can't get the level of service you used to and the jump to private jets is out of reach for about 99% of the population.

So the market ain't so great if you can't get what we used to get even in adjusted dollars. What I don't see is the airline trying to add better services in the US. They all seem to be taking service away with one minor tweak. I see a couple of airlines are opening their VIP services to the public for extra dollars. All this is buying you is shorter wait times and escorted boarding with reserved overhead space. You don't get any better inflight experience. Just the same old cranky staff, who BTW are getting treated just as bad by the airlines as the customers are.

The airlines suck now. All of them! And they cannot seem to figure out how to make money and when they have real trouble they ask for more handouts from the tax payer. Did I say how they suck?

Yeah, I'm crabby too. Especially when I see how much better foreign carriers and many foreign transport systems are.

And it is just gonna get worse if more fees get added onto each flight just to take off and land.

Rail requires a certain level of population density to be feasible. We don't have that in most of the country.
You can have the government fund it and select the routes, and you end up like California, getting ready to spend billions on a high speed rail line that connects no major population centers, and will have no reason for anyone to ride it. Yay!
I agree, I also know that for instance here in the Midwest using O'Hare as a main point of flight entry and then HSR to Madison, Milwaukee, St. Louis would be a great idea and would get people to those places faster than having them use the RJ system we have now. Probably would be cheaper too and that is why most developed places outside of the US have that level transport system integration. Cross country HSR doesn't make much sense when you consider how empty the west is and just how far it is from coast to coast. One could set up these mini-rail spoke and HSR hubs where they are needed. Getting the land would be a little challenge, but the government has given away gobs of land for rail roads before, so it wouldn't be a new idea and unprecedented. Thanks too to a couple of really bad SCOTUS decisions to help businesses, government can just come and take private land where needed too!

On a side note: Does any scheduled air carrier use private airports for their operations or are all the ones used public, government owned airports?
 
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Why are things "worse" now then back in the days? Because you wanted cheap air travel. You got exactly what you wanted.

Why are the employees so ****ed off? 1. Take away pay, pensions and benefits, get kicked in the nuts and see how much you smile. 2. Why should I be happy when you are so ****ed off? Attitude is a two way street.

Want a better experience? Pay for it. Pay for first class. It might even be cheaper than coach had we used the 1970 fares adjusted for inflation. Pay for the lounge, priority boarding and the fast pass lane thru security. Oh, that's right, you want a champaign experience for peanuts. Most people will pick the cheapest fare on the Internet.

Oh, the foreign carriers are better. I just flew from Frankfort to Orlando on a 747-400 without a single passenger bag because there was weather that broke the belt system. Of course, we were told after landing. Yes, this was Lufthansa.
 
Why are things "worse" now then back in the days? Because you wanted cheap air travel. You got exactly what you wanted.

Why are the employees so ****ed off? 1. Take away pay, pensions and benefits, get kicked in the nuts and see how much you smile. 2. Why should I be happy when you are so ****ed off? Attitude is a two way street.

Want a better experience? Pay for it. Pay for first class. It might even be cheaper than coach had we used the 1970 fares adjusted for inflation. Pay for the lounge, priority boarding and the fast pass lane thru security. Oh, that's right, you want a champaign experience for peanuts. Most people will pick the cheapest fare on the Internet.

Oh, the foreign carriers are better. I just flew from Frankfort to Orlando on a 747-400 without a single passenger bag because there was weather that broke the belt system. Of course, we were told after landing. Yes, this was Lufthansa.

I got news for y'all.

First class is a little wider seat, the can with your soda and a salad or sandwich. It ain't all it is cracked up to be. Better than steerage, but it was what coach was 15 years ago. I know, I fly up front a lot!

It is marginally better on long hauls. At least the US carriers are finally getting lay flat seats in biz and first. The foreign carriers were doing that 10 years ago.

BTW last flight I got TSA PRE twice in a row!!! Woo Hoo was finally treated like I wan't a terrorist. First time I got it since March of last year!
 
Why are things "worse" now then back in the days? Because you wanted cheap air travel. You got exactly what you wanted.
That's exactly right. Airlines gave people a choice, and they chose with their wallets. We (as a group) choose the lowest fare, period.
A few airlines tried giving higher levels of service at higher prices, and they promptly went out of business, while low-fare carriers like PeopleExpress, Southwest, and Frontier prospered.

I understand that some of us (myself included) would like the option of paying for better service, but there aren't enough of us. And I don't want the government re-regulating and forcing my preference on the market.
Additionally, we tend to forget the positive impacts of democratization of air travel. Granny in Miami *can* afford to hop a flight to LA to see the grandkids. Businesses (especially small businesses) can afford to maintain contracts with customers in other cities.

In many ways, the impact of deregulation and the amazing drop in airfares has had an impact similar to the transcontinental railroad, or the changes from trans-Atlantic ocean liners to aircraft.
It is easy to focus on the downside of deregulation, and forget the positives.
 
How come nobody has any problems with agriculture being regulated ? Farmers being paid money to NOT grow certain crops and all the other horse **** handouts going on there. Is it because some enterprises just work better with regulation or is that just a horrible blastphemy ?
 
How come nobody has any problems with agriculture being regulated ? Farmers being paid money to NOT grow certain crops and all the other horse **** handouts going on there.

I do have problems with it. But this is an aviation board :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Door to door time is what I was referring too, that is why I mentioned the "hurry up and wait" line in my post that you quoted. The hurry up and wait of airline travel these days, along with an airport for Kansas City that is located somewhere near Iowa make for that trip to be a very long one. Door to door time on Amtrak results in almost the same amount of time, but without the junk grabbing, long lines, and aggravation that comes with air travel.

The best part was that in really bad WX Amtrak still goes. Just a couple of weeks ago in the bad April snow storm that hit Kansas, MO, and southern Il, Amtrak went, they were late to St. Louis but held the train for us. We made up time and get to KC only 5 minutes late. I pretty much have stopped using commercial air travel for that link and see no reason to start using it unless I have a one day meeting there.

Within a reasonable distance, the door-door time can be better than airlines where Amtrak serves. DC-Cincinnati, which I did regularly at one time, is just impractical on Amtrak (can't even enjoy the beauty of the scenery as the route is run at night) - but the overpriced (monopoly) airline runs are only about 75 minutes block but 3+ hours airport-door/airport-door.

As Greg notes, ORD isn't exactly convenient. Neither is IAD, JFK, DFW, or LAX (depending on where in LA you're going).

I would suggest that the distance from O'Hare to downtown Chicago is every bit as far, if not in distance, then in time.

All they did was transfer the deficits from private companies to the taxpayer. Yay!

Biggest deficit that was passed was the pension obligations & union work rules/pay structure.
Yeah, flying was a lot nicer back then. Most people couldn't afford it, so it kept the riff raff off the plane. Airfares were sky high and set by the government, so airlines competed on service, meals, and cuteness of flight attendants.
Much of the old flying experience is still available, pay the inflation-adjusted equivalent and fly in first. Or pay an inflation-adjusted fraction of the old price, and fly coach.

Pay for the level of service you want. Isn't the market great?!

Not exactly. The First Class experience is much closer to what coach used to be. And even then the service tends not to be great except for certain foreign carriers on long-haul. I can recall getting a meal service in coach on the DC-BOS routes - you don't get that in F on any carrier today.

Most employers won't pay for F, even in cases where F might be less than - or nominally ($30-$50) more expensive than coach. Airlines still have $2000+ tickets for sale on transcons. Pay more for less.

The "market" is NOT pay for level of service you want. Not even close. I had one top airline sales manager tell me that they would offer NO corporate discounts between two market pairs because "each end is a hub for us and you MUST fly us." We started using connections and saved a huge bundle of money with no difference in service and little difference in time. Used to be I could fly from San Antonio to Europe via an airline's hub cheaper than flying from San Antonio to that hub. Market is not about "customer service", it's about maintaining a competitive edge that allows higher rates for the minimum amount of service the keeps people from flying someone else (this, by the way, is the philosophy I expect AA to take once USAir management takes over).

No. Rail requires a certain level of population density to be feasible. We don't have that in most of the country.
You can have the government fund it and select the routes, and you end up like California, getting ready to spend billions on a high speed rail line that connects no major population centers, and will have no reason for anyone to ride it. Yay!

The first 30 miles in an area no one travels, and $2 billion for the 30 miles of a supposed 800 mile line. That math isn't looking good for anyone. And they're starting in the middle, rather than one end or the other, so when the money runs out, the already built line won't connect to anything. What could go wrong?
Oh yeah, construction is supposed to start in 4 months, and the state hasn't bought any of the land. Great![/quote

California high-speed rail is a boondoggle that the market won't support.
The govt subsidizes rural air because it is uneconomical for airlines to fly to Dodge City, Kansas, or Pierre, SD, and Congress decided it was in the political interest of congressmen vital national interest of the country to maintain rural air service. So they subsidized it
And if they didn't, there wouldn't be ANY flights into John Murtha Memorial Airport in middle-of-nowhere Pennsylvania (which was also built with your tax dollars, and needed flights to justify its existence).

Exactly the reason rail was subsidized.

I got news for y'all.

First class is a little wider seat, the can with your soda and a salad or sandwich. It ain't all it is cracked up to be. Better than steerage, but it was what coach was 15 years ago. I know, I fly up front a lot!

It is marginally better on long hauls. At least the US carriers are finally getting lay flat seats in biz and first. The foreign carriers were doing that 10 years ago.

BTW last flight I got TSA PRE twice in a row!!! Woo Hoo was finally treated like I wan't a terrorist. First time I got it since March of last year!

I always say that "flyers need to have top-tier frequent flyer status just to be treated the way ALL passengers SHOULD be treated".

PRE is great when it works. Unfortunately, if there's int'l travel in your itinerary you won't get it, and much of my travel last year had Int'l in the PNR.
 
That's great ! Amtrak is a government subsidized entity. Glad you liked it. Imagine if it became de-regulated and started to have competition ? What do you think ALL the train lines would become like in a short amount of time ????? What can we learn from this parallel when we also consider that just about every foreign airline that we like so much is also subsidized in one form or another ?

The airlines, like most large corporations, are already subsidized by domestic governments in various ways. It's corporate welfare, and might not be as necessary if people weren't in such a big hurry to tax them and sue them to death. Executive compensation is such a drop in the bucket for large companies that even reducing it to zero for the entire executive team would have no material impact on the bottom line.

If Amtrak became unhooked from the government, it would likely become insolvent. While there may be some areas of the country where rail works, it doesn't work for most of it. It takes anywhere from 10-12 hours on Amtrak to get from where I live to Manhattan, for example, not including the 45 minute drive to the Amtrak terminal and the process involved before departure. Is it less hassle than the airlines? Perhaps. But I can drive that trip in 6 hours with almost no hassle.

Deregulation of the airline industry brought greater competition, greater accessibility, and significantly lower prices to the consumer. Deregulation and increased competition does put downward pressure on prices and therefore costs, including labor costs. If you work in the industry and can't live with that, perhaps it's time to consider another line of work. No one has a right to expect someone else to subsidize their "living wage."

My domestic travel in recent years has put me on both Southwest and AirTran, and I have never had a major issue with them. I still prefer Southwest mainly because they don't (yet) nickel-and-dime me for everything, especially changes in itinerary. USAir used to have a major hub in my city, and they certainly rivaled my experience with United as one of the most miserable airlines with the most miserable employees, characteristics which are no doubt directly attributable to the culture created by executive leadership. I understand that there are difficult and unruly customers, but those exist in any service industry. Again, if you're not prepared to deal with the public, no matter how unreasonable they may be, it's time to find another line of work.


JKG
 
Deregulation and increased competition does put downward pressure on prices and therefore costs, including labor costs.
I agree with everything you said, but I have to point out one thing.

In AVIATION, the public has shown that all they care about is the lowest price.
This is NOT the case in some other areas. Some people buy IPads, not Nexus 7s. They buy Buicks, not Kias.
In many areas, people will spend more for a difference in quality. But they aren't willing to do so in aviation. The market has spoken.
 
Most employers won't pay for F, even in cases where F might be less than - or nominally ($30-$50) more expensive than coach. ...
Market is not about "customer service", it's about maintaining a competitive edge that allows higher rates for the minimum amount of service the keeps people from flying someone else (this, by the way, is the philosophy I expect AA to take once USAir management takes over).
The problem is that you aren't the customer, your company is (they are the one paying the bill, just like mine).
Your company doesn't care about the service experience, they care about the fare.

Under regulation, the price was set by the government, and airlines competed on service. Now they compete on price, because the customers only care about price.

Further, the frequent fliers are on company travel, and they only pay for coach. First class isn't primarily filled with people paying for first, but by frequent fliers getting upgraded.
The model is not to have service at a level that gets people to pay for it, but to be nice enough so that business traveler to keep flying United (or AA, or whatever), but their coach fare still has to be low enough so the bean counters don't force the change to another airline.

The business model is fundamentally different.
 
Frontier used to be great, but now I can't get seat assignments and half-miles because I can't book corporate travel through their website.

Loved Frontier II, or was it III... But Republic screwed them up permanently judging by my most recent flight on them.

Coach is basically a guarantee to need a chiropractor sometime immediately following any trip on anyone anymore.

Our recent trip on UA was fine. My knees were in my teeth and that was my expectation. Less space than a typical Disney amusement park ride and you're stuck there for longer.

Hertz also was a total pain in the ass on the last trip, and they used to be decent when I was traveling for business. Overbooked by a huge number of cars and had the balls to try to get me to pay more than my reserved price "or you can wait 30 minutes", two hours after our flight arrived.

I drove off in a 2013 F150 crew cab short bed 4x4. Got to play with Sync. May have found the only Microsoft product worth buying. Seriously. It worked well. Neat.

Didn't bother me, but some folks would not have taken a big truck. I was very happy with and got it for my original booked car price. After a long negotiation where they started by saying I'd have to pay $80 more per day for it, then $30 because "you've waited so long we will make you a deal" and two other offers until my reserved price.

Saw Doc Bruce post a few stories about his bad experiences with rental car places recently, apparently it's epidemic industry-wide?

Will admit, back when I travelled for business I had a Gold Club membership and those cars are almost always there. But many smaller Hertz places in small towns I went to didn't really even have a "Gold" area. Just a couple of parking spots with vehicles in them. PHX has a massive Hertz area and to be as overbooked as they were was just a front for their high-pressure "upgrade" scheme.

Best car rental of the last few years? A private guy with eight vehicles found through Priceline in California. He asked politely if I'd mind driving his pickup truck (Ford Ranger) instead of a car, so he could rent out the car, but it wasn't required and I was fine with the Ranger as I was by myself and my bags would sit on the passenger side. Nice guy, good service.
 
The problem is that you aren't the customer, your company is (they are the one paying the bill, just like mine).
Your company doesn't care about the service experience, they care about the fare.

Actually, I am the customer about 33% of the time. And I do care about service as well as cost - in other words, I'll pay a reasonable premium for good service.... but when the business class fare is 10x the coach fare it stretches the bounds of "reasonable".

And when I travel on business, the company allows me to choose the carrier within certain constraints (the only one I really get flagged for using is UA, but AA, DL, WN, B6, US, and other LCCs are fine). When I get to choose, I become the customer.

The airline pricing model is better than it used to be, but still not "right". Used to be that airlines would price for market share... a couple were known to put larger aircraft on a route & price at a loss to gain market share where a competitor was starting up.

Under regulation, the price was set by the government, and airlines competed on service. Now they compete on price, because the customers only care about price.

Pretty presumptuous of you. Some customers care about more than price. Now airlines compete on both price and service. There is a big push recently for airlines to add premium services.

Further, the frequent fliers are on company travel, and they only pay for coach. First class isn't primarily filled with people paying for first, but by frequent fliers getting upgraded.

While that used to be true, it is less so these days. No, they may not pay full asking price, but the airlines are effectively monetizing F. More than one airline has said "we won't charge less because we don't want to devalue the product", while at the same time they fill the empty seats with frequent flyers, enabling them to increase load factor in the back. One airline regularly dispatched international aircraft with the business class cabin half-full because they didn't want to upgrade folks and they couldn't find people willing to pay 5-10x a coach fare to sit there.

Certain airlines have realized that the problem is the price differential and are pricing the F cabin in-line with customer demand. And they're getting folks to buy up to the better cabin. I certainly will do that when the fare differential is not punative.

The model is not to have service at a level that gets people to pay for it, but to be nice enough so that business traveler to keep flying United (or AA, or whatever), but their coach fare still has to be low enough so the bean counters don't force the change to another airline.

The business model is fundamentally different.

There's much more that comes into play on the corporate level. Corporate deals drive some aspects (many corporate deals require that the traffic share to the airline be above a certain percentage, say 50%, in specified market pairs). Route networks drive part of it (which is why US and AA have been at a disadvantage compared to others).

Likewise, many companies permit the traveler to choose the airline provided the fare is within x percent of lowest (or the carrier is a corporate preferred carrier) - thus, they might permit a traveler to fly Southwest instead of UA provided that the fare is no higher on Southwest.

And yes, airlines have been focused on premium services. All of the international carriers have added or are adding lie-flat business seats. DL picks up some connecting passengers planeside in a Porsche & personally drives them to their connecting flights. AA has added premium check-in and pay-for 5-Star concierge services. Adding the services, pricing them right, and executing well are all entirely different matters....
 
One thing I wonder about is how much consistency of experience factors into surveys like this. Another is whether most pax are reasonable in their expectations.

For example, in my rather limited experience with them, I've found JetBlue to be wildly inconsistent in terms of customer service. The range has been from "truly made the flight a pleasure," to "I think they recruited this flight crew from a den of vampires."

The most bizarre incident involved an FA who had a teen-aged girl flying as an UM practically in tears because her parents had given her cash to pay for her meals and such, and JB doesn't accept cash in-flight. The FA said something snotty along the lines of, "If your parents had bothered to read the literature we gave them, they would have known that." The kid was visibly very upset by this.

The lady she was seated next to came to her aid by invoking the names of a few deities, handing the FA her credit card, and telling her to just shut up and feed the kid -- in pretty much those exact words. But the UM was still shaken by the way she'd been treated by the FA.

I find it odd (and bad business) that the airline doesn't instruct FA's to just give UMs whatever they want, regardless of whether they have plastic to pay for it, just to avoid the kind of bad impressions incidents like that leave with pax. But on the other hand, on some JB flights, the cabin crew has bent over backwards to make the flights a pleasure. They're very inconsistent -- again, in my limited experience.

United, on the other hand, I've found to be very consistent. They're consistently... well, consistently "mediocre" sounds pejorative, so let's just say consistently "satisfactory," meaning neither "fantastic" nor "from the pit of hell." For low-maintenance pax like me who don't ask much of them, anyway, I've found them to be fine. They don't make it a point to ask me if there's anything they can do for me or if I'm enjoying the ride, but they don't scowl at me, either. That's perfectly okay, as far as I'm concerned.

But I've come across pax who have wildly unreasonable expectations in terms of what they're entitled to, as well as what the duties of the FAs really consist of. They don't get that although the FA will bring you a drink or a pillow, they're really there for safety reasons, not to be servants.

-Rich
 
But I've come across pax who have wildly unreasonable expectations in terms of what they're entitled to, as well as what the duties of the FAs really consist of. They don't get that although the FA will bring you a drink or a pillow, they're really there for safety reasons, not to be servants.

-Rich

They're not? :hairraise::rolleyes:

Don't they know who I am?!? :rolleyes:

(that's sarcasm, for the humor impaired)

I've heard a few passengers use those words...
 
Midwest, Legend,etc tried offering good service for a little more money but didn't last.
 
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