VFR/Visibility/Airspaces

Keystoner

Keystoner

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Keystoner
For flight category VFR, which is the green shaded category, the visibility requirement is greater than 5 sm, right?

Here's where I'm confused: when you introduce the airspaces.

No airspace below 10,000' MSL requires more than 3 sm visibility.

So when I'm flying in D & E airspace and there is 4 sm visibility, I know I can fly--it's more than 3 sm, but it's less than 5 sm, so why is it VFR?
 
I assume you’re referring to the “3000&5” VFR definition, which is a weather forecasting definition not a flight rules definition.

got a reference?
 
What do you mean, "green shaded category"?
 
MauleSkinner said:
I assume you’re referring to the “3000&5” VFR definition, which is a weather forecasting definition not a flight rules definition.

got a reference?
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My reference at this point is my CFI and his 1 to 3 and 3 to 5 mnemonic, but yes I believe that is the weather forecasting definition with the colored categories, but even with that understanding, I'm still confused.
 
Keystoner said:
My reference at this point is my CFI and his 1 to 3 and 3 to 5 mnemonic, but yes I believe that is the weather forecasting definition with the colored categories, but even with that understanding, I'm still confused.
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Ok…where are these color categories found?
 
You have to learn the categories & related minimums for the test. Learn them to perfection & once you’re past the test, remember this about the regulation VFR weather & visibility minimums: they are far, far below your personal minimums.

the whole purpose of the VFR weather minimums depicted by rings on charts around airports is to keep VFR traffic away from IFR traffic during periods of low visibility & low ceilings. In truth, the rings actually say: near MVFR=go away & stay away.

once you take a flight with even 5 mile visibility, much less 3, you’ll quickly realize your personal minimums are closer to 10-15 mile vis & no cloud deck lower than 1500 ft msl (so you can fly 500ft below the clouds & still be 1000 ft above the ground).

so learn the test & then fly in real life.

Once you have your personal minimums set, the rest of the rings on sectionals around airports are just to remind you to call atc (and to check your equipment list before you enter their airspace).
 
rhkennerly said:
once you take a flight with even 5 mile visibility, much less 3, you’ll quickly realize your personal minimums are closer to 10-15 mile vis & no cloud deck lower than 1500 ft msl (so you can fly 500ft below the clouds & still be 1000 ft above the ground).
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It depends. It might be fine to make a few circuits in the pattern, or a short flight around a familiar local area, at or near the VFR minimums, while a longer flight may be a bad idea in considerably better conditions. Knowing the difference is something that comes with experience.
 
Dana said:
It depends. It might be fine to make a few circuits in the pattern, or a short flight around a familiar local area, at or near the VFR minimums, while a longer flight may be a bad idea in considerably better conditions. Knowing the difference is something that comes with experience.
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Experience can also adjust your personal minimums quite a bit.
 
Keystoner said:
@rhkennerly, I appreciate the practical advice.
Click to expand...

I suppose I should add the caveat that you might do pattern work at 5 miles vis. But you’re not going to like it much.

Coming back to aviation it took me forever to wrap my head around all that new airspace on a sectional. It’s such a mess that I “believe” most pilots keep the sectional layer turned off on ForeFlight.
 
Keystoner said:
For flight category VFR, which is the green shaded category, the visibility requirement is greater than 5 sm, right?

Here's where I'm confused: when you introduce the airspaces.

No airspace below 10,000' MSL requires more than 3 sm visibility.

So when I'm flying in D & E airspace and there is 4 sm visibility, I know I can fly--it's more than 3 sm, but it's less than 5 sm, so why is it VFR?
Click to expand...

I know you a a new student pilot and looking for answers. But many of these questions should be between you and your CFI. As a new student you can easily get bad, wrong information that can add some bumps to what you are trying to learn. You can also learn information that is valuable to your learning as well. There are some CFIs out there that should not be teaching, but trying to learn from a bunch of random people off the internet is not the best.
 
Dana said:
It depends. It might be fine to make a few circuits in the pattern, or a short flight around a familiar local area, at or near the VFR minimums, while a longer flight may be a bad idea in considerably better conditions. Knowing the difference is something that comes with experience.
Click to expand...

‘yeah, you’re right. But it’s not the first time we’ve dealt with these FAR “dancing on the head of a pin” induced visibility questions just because they haven’t looked at the larger context of what does xxx vis actually mean. For me, 5 miles is claustrophobic. 3 mile vis gives me heartburn & shortness of breath.
 
TommyG said:
I know you a a new student pilot and looking for answers. But many of these questions should be between you and your CFI. As a new student you can easily get bad, wrong information that can add some bumps to what you are trying to learn. You can also learn information that is valuable to your learning as well. There are some CFIs out there that should not be teaching, but trying to learn from a bunch of random people off the internet is not the best.
Click to expand...
Who here shouldn't I trust? Should I trust this advice by you? I appreciate your concern. I'll figure out how to discern.
 
rhkennerly said:
‘yeah, you’re right. But it’s not the first time we’ve dealt with these FAR “dancing on the head of a pin” induced visibility questions just because they haven’t looked at the larger context of what does xxx vis actually mean. For me, 5 miles is claustrophobic. 3 mile vis gives me heartburn & shortness of breath.
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For some of us, those happen with a lot lower vis. Everybody’s different, and training and experience are big parts of what makes something reasonable.
 
The color codes are to make reading certain weather maps easy is a big picture sort of way. You can quickly see areas of better weather vs. areas of worse weather.

VFR and MVFR are both VFR.

IFR and LIFR are both IFR.

The color-coded weather map gives you an overview from which you then view the details of specific airports.
 
Keystoner said:
Green=VFR
Blue=MVFR
Red=IFR
Magenta=LIFR
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Ah. Those things. They are not any kind of regulatory thing. Just kind of a guidance type of thing. Like inexperienced pilots may want think twice about flying in MVFR conditions. Or newbie IFR pilots in LIFR. They have nothing to do with 'legal' minimums. Like a Surface Area must be reporting 1000 and 3 to land or take off at the airport there without an IFR or SVFR Clearance. They do not change Cloud Clearance and Visibility requirements like 1000/500/2000 and 3. Or 1000/1000/1 mile and 5 above 10,000.
 
If 'Keystone' means PA, then I'd suggest not paying much attention to the color codes in weather at all. Simply because you have hills there, all over the place, and ceiling is likely going to be your weather limiter. The airport with 2000' ceiling in the valley may not be much use to you, if it's surrounded by 2000' hills.
 
rhkennerly said:
I suppose I should add the caveat that you might do pattern work at 5 miles vis. But you’re not going to like it much.
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If I’m flying VFR to somewhere, I’m not a huge fan of less than 5 miles. But I’d also comment some marginal weather days are great platforms for learning/lessons. As a newish student, I had the opportunity to do pattern work with an SVFR clearance (with my CFI). Field was IFR (for viz- blowing snow IIRC). It was a fantastic experience and I learned a lot! It was a little embarrassing that it took us a minute to remember how to request it from tower.. haha.

Keystoner said:
Who here shouldn't I trust? Should I trust this advice by you? I appreciate your concern. I'll figure out how to discern.
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Definitely trust your CFI, their ticket is on the line. As for the rest, let’s say… trust but verify ;)
 
And ceiling is by and large irrelevant to that rule except within TAFKAACZ (Surface area of controlled airspace designated for an airport).
 
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