VFR on bottom?

Van Johnston

Van Johnston

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Van Johnston
Is there an analogue to the VFR on top procedure to get down below a ceiling and then go VFR without being on an instrument approach?

My scenario: I just cancelled the VFR trip I had scheduled today. Current conditions at origin are IFR. Forecast at destination at arrival time is MVFR with ceiling 1500-2500. Forecast for return leg this afternoon is no better than MVFR.

I am about 1/2 way thru my instrument training, so my first thought was 'if I only had my ticket already.' Then I thought about how I would have actually flown it IFR. The problem is the destination does not have an instrument procedure. It does have AWOS. If I depart IFR and get to my destination and the ceiling is reported at say, 2000, is there an a) legal and b) prudent way to down below the ceiling?

The only alternative I can think of is to file to the nearest field with an instrument procedure (18nm), shoot the approach, once I break out cancel IFR, and then scoot over to my destination. Is there a better way?
 
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I'm kinda new to the instrument ticket game, but you could file for the minimum enroute altitude. If it happens to be below 1500 and it gets you under the clouds, great. Then you could go VFR if it fits the criteria. If not, you'd have to go to the airport with an instrument approach.

I'm sure someone will come along with a little better info.
 
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Van Johnston said:
The only alternative I can think of is to file to the nearest field with an instrument procedure (18nm), shoot the approach, once I break out cancel IFR, and then scoot over to my destination. Is there a better way?
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You could fly the approach and request SVFR once you break out and then go to your destination. I would only do that if I knew the area well, but I'm sure that wouldn't matter to many others.
 
Van Johnston said:
Is there an analogue to the VFR on top procedure to get down below a ceiling and then go VFR without being on an instrument approach?

My scenario: I just cancelled the VFR trip I had scheduled today. Current conditions at origin are IFR. Forecast at destination at arrival time is MVFR with ceiling 1500-2500. Forecast for return leg this afternoon is no better than MVFR.

I am about 1/2 way thru my instrument training, so my first thought was 'if I only had my ticket already.' Then I thought about how I would have actually flown it IFR. The problem is the destination does not have an instrument procedure. It does have AWOS. If I depart IFR and get to my destination and the ceiling is reported at say, 2000, is there an a) legal and b) prudent way to down below the ceiling?

The only alternative I can think of is to file to the nearest field with an instrument procedure (18nm), shoot the approach, once I break out cancel IFR, and then scoot over to my destination. Is there a better way?
Click to expand...

Sure, all that's needed is 500' between the bases and the Minimum IFR Altitude. Ceilings of 2000' will probably be too low to allow that.

An airport with an AWOS but without SIAPs is unusual, what airport is this?
 
rbridges said:
I'm kinda new to the instrument ticket game, but you could file for the minimum enroute altitude. If it happens to be below 1500 and it gets you under the clouds, great. Then you could go VFR if it fits the criteria. If not, you'd have to go to the airport with an instrument approach.
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It probably wont happen to be below 1500'. Airways have a floor 1200' AGL or higher. MEAs will normally provide for a buffer above that floor of at least 300' within airspace containing terminal instrument procedure segments and 500' elsewhere.
 
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roncachamp said:
I believe you mean T35, Cameron Municipal Airpark.
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Yes. When I put in t35 poa said there was a 5 character minimum, so I added the period and a space. I guess it didnt like the space, because it said I still needed 5 characters, so I stuck the k in just to be done with it.
 
Van Johnston said:
Yes. When I put in t35 poa said there was a 5 character minimum, so I added the period and a space. I guess it didnt like the space, because it said I still needed 5 characters, so I stuck the k in just to be done with it.
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I always add ...
 
Try the visual if you can get below. If not shoot a GPS into LHB, get below cancel, and go VFR to T35. No SVFR since there's no surface based airspace and it's VFR anyway.
 
If the ceiling is above the minimum vectoring altitude (MVA) and the visibility is at least three miles, then you may be able to get vectors down to that altitude for a visual approach. You will need to have an alternate that has an approach you are equipped to fly, in case the ceiling turns out not to be high enough for a visual approach. MVAs are not published, but in general I believe they will be not be any lower than 1000 feet above the obstacles in flat areas of the country, and no lower than 2000 feet in designated mountainous areas. See AIM 5-4-23 and 5-5-11, and the Pilot/Controller Glossary for details.
 
Just ask for vectors and an en route descent to get below the weather. They can generally take you down to the MVA for whatever sector you are going through. We do it all the time when it is ovc. Obviously this only works if the ceilings are high enough to permit a visual approach
 
You can fly on a VFR-on-top clearance between layers or beneath all the clouds. It seems counterintuitive, but it doesn't matter if you are actually on top of anything or not.
 
JHW said:
You can fly on a VFR-on-top clearance between layers or beneath all the clouds. It seems counterintuitive, but it doesn't matter if you are actually on top of anything or not.
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VFR-on-top doesn't solve the problem here.
 
The big difference is that if you can climb high enough, you can always get on top. The reverse is not true about getting below.
 
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