VFR Holding

[cherokeeflyboy]

I was looking at the Special Traffic Proceedures for the upcoming Daytona
500 at DAB. There is a note that VFR Traffic can expect to hold
at one of three visual checkpoints depicted on the JAX sectional.
My question is, what is a VFR hold? Does ATC expect me to turn about a point, race track or just loiter in the area? This was not covered during training I would guess because of the "special" circumstances. I would not mind a few circuts, but doing 360's vfr for an extended (10 mins or more)
time would make me dizzy.


KD

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Use a comfortable bank angle for you that allows good visibility since other aircraft are likely to converge on the area but, don't get really wide with the radius that way, dizziness should not be a factor.

 

[Richard]

Isn't it a 'rally' point they use when expecting large amounts of traffic, like Air Venture or Sun&Fun? Instead of holding waiting for your slot to open why not better plan your arrival?

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Isn't it a 'rally' point they use when expecting large amounts of traffic, like Air Venture or Sun&Fun? Instead of holding waiting for your slot to open why not better plan your arrival?

Forgot to mention that multiple aircraft can get going around in the same hold together with 3 or 4 the most I've seen when it's that crowded or when prior planning for congestion fails to yield the desired results. Watch the faster aircaft especially because it is often apparently very hard for them to pull back on the throttle a little bit so as to blend in to the hold flow.

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

Isn't it a 'rally' point they use when expecting large amounts of traffic, like Air Venture or Sun&Fun? Instead of holding waiting for your slot to open why not better plan your arrival?

"VFR ARRIVALS
Daytona Class C Airspace

Pilot participation in the Class C Airspace Area is required and will be provided to aircraft landing at airports within the lateral limits of the Daytona Beach Class C Airspace. Contact Daytona Beach Approach Control at least 20 miles from the Daytona Beach International Airport. Pilots are requested to remain clear of Class C Airspace until clearance is received to proceed inbound. Three visual checkpoints on the Jacksonville Sectional Chart will be used as necessary for VFR holding points. They are the New Smyrna Airport, High Bridge, and Lake Disston.

VFR arriving aircraft are requested to cancel their flight plans with Flight Service prior to landing."​

 

[Steve]

"VFR holding point" not "VFR hold". Since you'll be talking to approach to obtain permission to proceed inbound, expect instructions for orbiting the "holding point", most likely left turns following the plane ahead of you. At Sun 'n Fun I've seen upwards of 20 planes in a conga line orbiting Lake Parker while a runway incident was being cleared. Not a big deal, unless you overlooked contingency fuel.

"VFR ARRIVALS
Daytona Class C Airspace

Pilot participation in the Class C Airspace Area is required and will be provided to aircraft landing at airports within the lateral limits of the Daytona Beach Class C Airspace. Contact Daytona Beach Approach Control at least 20 miles from the Daytona Beach International Airport. Pilots are requested to remain clear of Class C Airspace until clearance is received to proceed inbound. Three visual checkpoints on the Jacksonville Sectional Chart will be used as necessary for VFR holding points. They are the New Smyrna Airport, High Bridge, and Lake Disston.

VFR arriving aircraft are requested to cancel their flight plans with Flight Service prior to landing."
​

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

"VFR holding point" not "VFR hold". Since you'll be talking to approach to obtain permission to proceed inbound, expect instructions for orbiting the "holding point", most likely left turns following the plane ahead of you. At Sun 'n Fun I've seen upwards of 20 planes in a conga line orbiting Lake Parker while a runway incident was being cleared. Not a big deal, unless you overlooked contingency fuel.

Thanks all for the response, how can I find out if they expect left turns, or what? "most likely" does not do it for me. I would like to know what to expect before airborne!

KD

 

[poadeleted20]

Thanks all for the response, how can I find out if they expect left turns, or what? "most likely" does not do it for me. I would like to know what to expect before airborne!

Expect the unexpected, because that's what happens at the holding points for VFR arrivals to major events like AOPA Open House, NASCAR races, etc. It will be a zoo, and whatever you do, everybody else will do something different, so keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel.

 

[Anthony]

Expect the unexpected, because that's what happens at the holding points for VFR arrivals to major events like AOPA Open House, NASCAR races, etc. It will be a zoo, and whatever you do, everybody else will do something different, so keep your eyes open and your head on a swivel.

And there's always a guy in a Bonanza that flies right through the holding pattern or cuts everyone off and lands. They're probably flying Cirrus (Cirri) now, so look out for those too.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

And there's always a guy in a Bonanza that flies right through the holding pattern or cuts everyone off and lands. They're probably flying Cirrus (Cirri) now, so look out for those too.

LOL! (not really)

What is it with those guys? Not all of them of course but enough to notice a disproportionate number over the years.

 

[Richard]

LOL! (not really)

What is it with those guys? Not all of them of course but enough to notice a disproportionate number over the years.

Anti-authority is not just the young guys. What I've seen of what you describe is that it's mostly old guys, like who started in WWII or just after. They feel 'put upon' by all the new rules since then and figure their experience is vast enough to waive compliance to all the 'new' rules. They willfully and stubbornly remain in a time warp.

Kid you not, I once approached a man on the ramp after he cut inside 3 a/c in the patt why he did that. He responded, "Sonny, I had already ground looped my Stearman before your momma was wiping Gerbers out of your diapers." It didn't answer my question but I knew where he was going...

 

[Anthony]

Anti-authority is not just the young guys. What I've seen of what you describe is that it's mostly old guys, like who started in WWII or just after. They feel 'put upon' by all the new rules since then and figure their experience is vast enough to waive compliance to all the 'new' rules. They willfully and stubbornly remain in a time warp.

Kid you not, I once approached a man on the ramp after he cut inside 3 a/c in the patt why he did that. He responded, "Sonny, I had already ground looped my Stearman before your momma was wiping Gerbers out of your diapers." It didn't answer my question but I knew where he was going...

I've come across this also and wondered how someone could still be alive after all those years. Lucky I guess.

 

[wsuffa]

Kid you not, I once approached a man on the ramp after he cut inside 3 a/c in the patt why he did that. He responded, "Sonny, I had already ground looped my Stearman before your momma was wiping Gerbers out of your diapers." It didn't answer my question but I knew where he was going...

I've experienced a similar thing related to briefings and use of charts. "Son, I've been flying for 30 years, every time I've checked on a map, nothing has changed. And it's not about to in the short time I'm flying today."

Those are the kind that bust the ADIZ and TFRs.

 

[Bones]

I used to live in concord, NC and flew many MANY drivers and races both in King Airs and Lears. NASCAR races are VERY busy and congested and I would urge everyone to please read all NOTAMS, TFRS, and ATC Temp Special Procedures, and ESTEMP info. It makes everyones life much easier and SAFER. Also realize its not just the jet jockies out there its our friends in the Helicopters, choppering in the crews and drivers. I couldn't agree more with Steve and Ron Levy's statements. Enjoy the air and the sights from above if you but please study up and be aware of what to expect.

 

[Steve]

Oh yea, and watch out for the Goodyear blimp bobbing along with the local tire distributors when it's not flying high cover over the speedway, unless you've got your head down trying to program your "arrival" on the gps.

I used to live in concord, NC and flew many MANY drivers and races both in King Airs and Lears. NASCAR races are VERY busy and congested and I would urge everyone to please read all NOTAMS, TFRS, and ATC Temp Special Procedures, and ESTEMP info. It makes everyones life much easier and SAFER. Also realize its not just the jet jockies out there its our friends in the Helicopters, choppering in the crews and drivers. I couldn't agree more with Steve and Ron Levy's statements. Enjoy the air and the sights from above if you but please study up and be aware of what to expect.

 

[Bones]

Man thats a good point Steve! Punching those arrivals in can be a bugger sometimes! We try to just have one head down in the cockpit at a time.

 

[poadeleted20]

Oh yea, and watch out for the Goodyear blimp bobbing along with the local tire distributors when it's not flying high cover over the speedway, unless you've got your head down trying to program your "arrival" on the gps.

One thing to consider about a blimp is that if it's orbiting, it's probably doing so over an event covered by the generic large crowd event TFR NOTAM, which means if you can read the writing well enough to tell whether it's Goodyear or MetLife or Outback, you're probably busted. IOW, if you see a blimp orbiting, point your nose elsewhere.