VFR Flight Following Question

H

HouTxPilot82

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
286
Display Name
Display name:
HouTxPilot82
I've been wanting to take a short flight from Sugar Land (KSGR) over to Galveston (KGLS). I'd like to use VFR flight following. I'm familiar with requesting this on the ground before I start my taxi (my preferred method), and also once I'm airborne.

The direct route between these points is 47NM as shown in this image from SkyVector:
v8UbIjO
. As you can see, I'd have to either stay under the Bravo shelf , or get cleared into it to avoid the obstacles along that route - I've heard on flight following it's no issue to get cleared on that route.

There's an indirect route I'd like to take as shown in this image:
9WzTWKi
. I prefer this one for a couple of reasons:
1. The distance gets up to 59NM so I can log it as a XC flight.
2. It would be more scenic to fly along the coast until I reach the airport.
3. Get out from under Bravo a little quicker and not as many obstructions in the way.

I've read that when you get VFR flight following you don't necessarily have to fly a straight line to the destination but my desired route deviates enough that I think I should give ATC an idea of how I plan to get to my destination. What's the proper way to communicate this route to ATC? I'm not flying directly over any VFR waypoint or other airport at the spot where I plan to change my heading direct towards the airport. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Seems the images didn't insert but the hyperlink should work...
 
HouTxPilot82 said:
[snip]
1. The distance gets up to 59NM so I can log it as a XC flight.
[snip]
Click to expand...

Nope. Flown distance matters not. Only straight line distance between airports matters for cross country (at least for IR requirements).

John
 
just tell approach what you are going to do - "southeast to the tip of Galveston Island and then to GLS" Be ready to give them your on course heading if they ask.

You don't need any magic words, the folks in the dark room are people too even if they don't sound like it sometimes. My favorite route description is "We're going to head up toward Laramie then hang a left at the state line" Then the controller knows exactly what I'm going to do.
 
Last edited:
If you want flight following, just tell them your intentions. You will be deviating to the right or left XX degrees and will advise when direct again.
 
I fly to Galveston alot from Hooks. I have done both flight following and without. With flight following you may get alot of handoffs even in that short of a distance. Not necessarily a bad thing but just fyi.

Personally, I would head south and get away from sgr and axh traffic and fly along the coast. This would let you get higher sooner. Houston controllers are very accommodating however, I would tune in the approach frequency, if they are busy then I would not bother with flight following. I have been denied a time or two.
 
I use flight following for anything non-local. In fact, I just got my instrument rating and everyone asked me, "What do you think?" My answer: It's like flight following on steroids. They can't drop you, now.

Still, I am a hard believer in flight following. It is a safer alternative to filing a VFR flight plan in case of an emergency. It adds a level of situational awareness that you cannot get anywhere else. I almost think that VFR flight following should be part of private training.

Also, flight following does nothing more for your routing than without it. You tell them where you're going and they "follow" you. You also will rarely get cleared through a bravo airspace... they'll remind you to avoid it.

Oh, and BTW, X-C is direct point-to-point between airports.

-Andrew
 
Last edited:
ahkahn said:
I use flight following for anything non-local. In fact, I just got my instrument rating and everyone asked me, "What do you think?" My answer: It's like flight following on steroids. They can't drop you, now.

Still, I am a hard believer in flight following. It is a safer alternative to filing a VFR flight plan in case of an emergency. It adds a level of situational awareness that you cannot get anywhere else. I almost think that VFR flight following should be part of private training.

Oh, and BTW, X-C is direct point-to-point between airports.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I'm glad my instructor trained me on flight following - he required me to use it on my solo XC flights.
 
HouTxPilot82 said:
Thanks for the info. I'm glad my instructor trained me on flight following - he required me to use it on my solo XC flights.
Click to expand...


The hardest thing I have with FF is hearing my tail numbers when they call me. Boston is quite busy, a lot of talk going on, and my hearing isn't the best even with noise cancelling headsets.

But I agree, anytime I'm getting out of the local area, I get FF. It just makes sense.
 
As long as you are legal to fly in Bravo, basically meaning that your encoding altimeter has been calibrated within the last two years, just tell them where you are going and if they bore you through the bravo, no problem.

For logging cross country, it is the distance between the airports that matters, not how many miles you fly to get there. It must be GREATER THAN 50NM to log as XC.
 
UngaWunga said:
The hardest thing I have with FF is hearing my tail numbers when they call me. Boston is quite busy, a lot of talk going on, and my hearing isn't the best even with noise cancelling headsets.

But I agree, anytime I'm getting out of the local area, I get FF. It just makes sense.
Click to expand...


I've always been worried about missing my tail number when they call, but have never found it to be a problem. Reminds me of when I played ball in high school. No matter how much racket there was to deal with, I could pick the coaches voice out of the crowd, ESPECIALLY when he was calling my name.
 
UngaWunga said:
But I agree, anytime I'm getting out of the local area, I get FF. It just makes sense.
Click to expand...

Sometimes it even makes sense in the local area, especially in NY airspace! A few years ago, I had a close call in the practice area south of McArthur airport (KISP). ATC suggested an immediate left turn for traffic! I never saw the guy, yet I was scanning and did my clearing turns. Glad I was on FF and I rarely depart my home field (KFRG) without picking it up.

I never got a TIS alert either, so the guy probably wasn't squawking.
 
Last edited:
For flight following, unless you are subject to a restriction you are free to pick your route and altitude. I always advise the controller of my intentions, though, so that they know what to expect: "SoCal, Bugsmasher N12345 will start a VFR climb to X,XXX feet."

If you are under some heading or altitude restriction, or within the class Bravo, I request permission to change heading/altitude and wait for a response: "SoCal, Bugsmasher N12345 requests a VFR climb to X,XXX feet."

If flying to your destination takes you through a class Bravo, chances are they will ask how you intend to transition and you can tell them your planned route.
 
MBDiagMan said:
As long as you are legal to fly in Bravo, basically meaning that your encoding altimeter has been calibrated within the last two years, just tell them where you are going and if they bore you through the bravo, no problem.
Click to expand...

Up here in the Chicagoland area, they'll drop you before you hit the local bravo-area approach controllers. If you're lucky enough to be able to call up and have one take you for FF, they will still make it a point to tell you to avoid the bravo airspace. I've even gone so far as to ask them direct through (KLOT-KMKE which puts you directly through the bravo) and have been denied and had to route up via KDPA and north. The O'Hare bravo (in my experience) is very exclusive.

-Andrew
 
Ff seems to work great in the northeast corridor,when coming south very rarely do I get routed around NY class B. The controllers will even give you a choice of deviations if direct is not possible.
 
Thanks everyone. I'm not averse to going through Class Bravo, just considering my options.

Also, I don't have any specific need to log a cross country flight... not planning on going for IR. Just figured since it's already 47NM, if I can get over 50, might as well do it... repositioning to Lane and starting from there sounds like a good idea if I really want to log that; plus I'll get to practice the short field technique. If I plan to go that route, what's the proper way to log that in the log book?
 
ahkahn said:
Up here in the Chicagoland area, they'll drop you before you hit the local bravo-area approach controllers. If you're lucky enough to be able to call up and have one take you for FF, they will still make it a point to tell you to avoid the bravo airspace. I've even gone so far as to ask them direct through (KLOT-KMKE which puts you directly through the bravo) and have been denied and had to route up via KDPA and north. The O'Hare bravo (in my experience) is very exclusive.

-Andrew
Click to expand...


Through DFW Bravo, it seems to depend upon their workload at the time, and how you sound and look. I learned that if I call the correct approach frequency, announce my position and altitude and where I am going and then hold a good precise altitude and heading, they will usually bore me right through the Bravo instead of routing me around. If it's very early in the morning, it seems to always work.
 
ahkahn said:
Up here in the Chicagoland area, they'll drop you before you hit the local bravo-area approach controllers. If you're lucky enough to be able to call up and have one take you for FF, they will still make it a point to tell you to avoid the bravo airspace. I've even gone so far as to ask them direct through (KLOT-KMKE which puts you directly through the bravo) and have been denied and had to route up via KDPA and north. The O'Hare bravo (in my experience) is very exclusive.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

I've had good experience with the Houston/San Antonio approach/centers on my long XC flights. There was only one portion of it during which the controller I got handed off to did not acknowledge me when I checked in. Being a newbie, I got pretty nervous and switched back to the previous frequency I had written down and asked them to confirm who I should be talking to. After they confirmed it, I switched back and checked in again; got no acknowledgement until he handed me off to the next guy. It wasn't busy on the frequency either...
 
frfly172 said:
Ff seems to work great in the northeast corridor,when coming south very rarely do I get routed around NY class B. The controllers will even give you a choice of deviations if direct is not possible.
Click to expand...
Yep. The NY guys are always helpful. I've never been denied a transition.
 
HouTxPilot82 said:
I've been wanting to take a short flight from Sugar Land (KSGR) over to Galveston (KGLS). I'd like to use VFR flight following. I'm familiar with requesting this on the ground before I start my taxi (my preferred method), and also once I'm airborne.

The direct route between these points is 47NM as shown in this image from SkyVector:
v8UbIjO
. As you can see, I'd have to either stay under the Bravo shelf , or get cleared into it to avoid the obstacles along that route - I've heard on flight following it's no issue to get cleared on that route.

There's an indirect route I'd like to take as shown in this image:
9WzTWKi
. I prefer this one for a couple of reasons:
1. The distance gets up to 59NM so I can log it as a XC flight.
2. It would be more scenic to fly along the coast until I reach the airport.
3. Get out from under Bravo a little quicker and not as many obstructions in the way.

I've read that when you get VFR flight following you don't necessarily have to fly a straight line to the destination but my desired route deviates enough that I think I should give ATC an idea of how I plan to get to my destination. What's the proper way to communicate this route to ATC? I'm not flying directly over any VFR waypoint or other airport at the spot where I plan to change my heading direct towards the airport. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Having done this from IWS enough, I can tell you that staying to the East of the towers outside of the bravo is no problem. They're tall (~2k') but easy to see and avoid. I find it common to continue until South of 6 and follow 6 in and out.

You could also fly the I-10 corridor and then South.
 
The one major point that I learned during my instrument training was this: The controllers are there for the pilots, not the other way around.

They are your tool. Use them like you would a navigational instrument, engine instrument, or even a mechanic. They are there to ensure the safety of you and your passengers. By you electing to use them for flight following, you're also helping them out by knowing what that squawk'd 1200 airplane on their radar's intentions are.

-Andrew
 
HouTxPilot82 said:
Thanks for the info. I'm glad my instructor trained me on flight following - he required me to use it on my solo XC flights.
Click to expand...

Didn't use flight following once during my training. Trained at an uncontrolled field sitting under a Class B shelf. Had my mock checkride instructor try calling St. Louis approach for it once, but they ignored us. It would have been nice to have included it in training.

Little nervous about using it for the first time. Looks like my first opportunity might be a flight to Nashville area or Bristol, TN. Might get an instructor to go up with me at least once to get familiar with it beforehand.
 
Fredbob711 said:
Didn't use flight following once during my training. Trained at an uncontrolled field sitting under a Class B shelf. Had my mock checkride instructor try calling St. Louis approach for it once, but they ignored us. It would have been nice to have included it in training.

Little nervous about using it for the first time. Looks like my first opportunity might be a flight to Nashville area or Bristol, TN. Might get an instructor to go up with me at least once to get familiar with it beforehand.
Click to expand...
It's not a big deal. Call up approach, tell them who you are, where you are, altitude, and what you want to do.
 
Fredbob711 said:
Didn't use flight following once during my training. Trained at an uncontrolled field sitting under a Class B shelf. Had my mock checkride instructor try calling St. Louis approach for it once, but they ignored us. It would have been nice to have included it in training.

Little nervous about using it for the first time. Looks like my first opportunity might be a flight to Nashville area or Bristol, TN. Might get an instructor to go up with me at least once to get familiar with it beforehand.
Click to expand...

Just have the required info ready to go. There are some youtube videos of it as well - some are better than others, but you get the general idea of what to expect.
 
Fredbob711 said:
Didn't use flight following once during my training. Trained at an uncontrolled field sitting under a Class B shelf. Had my mock checkride instructor try calling St. Louis approach for it once, but they ignored us. It would have been nice to have included it in training.

Little nervous about using it for the first time. Looks like my first opportunity might be a flight to Nashville area or Bristol, TN. Might get an instructor to go up with me at least once to get familiar with it beforehand.
Click to expand...
I have some training materials, including a pilot/controller script for a mock flight. I put 'em together for a training class that I did and had a couple of audience members use the script to play pilot and controller. People seemed to like the package. Anyone wants a copy, PM me with a usable email address.
 
I don't see this mentioned: Remember that even on FF, you need an explicit clearance into Class Bravo.
 
jordane93 said:
It's not a big deal. Call up approach, tell them who you are, where you are, altitude, and what you want to do.
Click to expand...


Yup, its really that simple. Just think about what you're going to say before you do, so it doesn't take you 30 seconds to blurt it out with a bunch of 'ums' and 'uhhhhs'... :yesnod:

Read and study this:
http://www.westwingsinc.com/vfrcomm.pdf

I found it very useful. Its all common sense.
 
HouTxPilot82 said:
Just have the required info ready to go. There are some youtube videos of it as well - some are better than others, but you get the general idea of what to expect.
Click to expand...

I learned to fly in the boondocks, only rarely speaking to a tower or anyone. About three years ago, my Mom became ill requiring me to go to the DFW area often. I was really nervous about it and a number people here on POA gave me lots of help and encouragement. One of the things they told me that hasn't been mentioned here is that there is nothing wrong with writing a script and practicing. Another thing told to me by Wayne was "Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover are retired, so you no longer have to sound cool on the radio, just talk."

The first time I tried it, they bored me right through the bravo and it couldn't have gone better. Since then, I have no more mic fright or other problems with it. Once you do it, whether it is going through controlled airspace or flight following, I think you will find it to be no big deal.

I was worried to death about it, but with the help I got here plus some last minute coaching from a retired airline pilot at the airport, I got past the worry you're dealing with. Prepare for it and do it. You will then have another barrier in your world of flying knocked down and out of the way.

You can do it.
 
HouTxPilot82 said:
I've had good experience with the Houston/San Antonio approach/centers on my long XC flights. There was only one portion of it during which the controller I got handed off to did not acknowledge me when I checked in. Being a newbie, I got pretty nervous and switched back to the previous frequency I had written down and asked them to confirm who I should be talking to. After they confirmed it, I switched back and checked in again; got no acknowledgement until he handed me off to the next guy. It wasn't busy on the frequency either...
Click to expand...

You cannot enter the Bravo until you are cleared through. I have been told on a number of occasions NOT to enter. At that point I have to circle outside the Bravo until I get clearance.

Also, be prepared for FF to drop you "radar service terminated, frequency change approved", then you are on your own.
 
96gs917 said:
You cannot enter the Bravo until you are cleared through. I have been told on a number of occasions NOT to enter. At that point I have to circle outside the Bravo until I get clearance.

Also, be prepared for FF to drop you "radar service terminated, frequency change approved", then you are on your own.
Click to expand...

Yep - I'm familiar with the rule on entering Bravo. I've also had FF dropped on me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top