Vectored into smoke

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CT583

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CT583
Yesterday I was doing practice approaches with a cfii. Being vectored to final I’m under the hood. Before me was a pretty significant plume of smoke, which got me thinking.

If you were actually in IMC and went through a plume of smoke, what would be the reassurance your aircraft was not the item on fire?

You would certainly smell it, there could be visual smoke in the cabin.
What would you do in such a situation?

Edit: I didn’t even realize a temperature inversion was trapping the smoke at altitude. Learned something new.
 

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I 've never flown through smoke, but would assume that your sense of smell would be a factor. If you're flying through smoke from a grass fire, you'd likely be able to smell the difference between that and something like an electrical or engine fire pretty quickly.
 
Guessing that the smell would be different. Unless, the plume of smoke is from a burning aircraft. Which I guess if you’re on final, could be a possibility.
 
Depends what is burning. Wood smoke (forest fires or whatever) and house fires smell distinctly different than most things that will burn in a plane.
 
As a firefighter, I'd probably be better able to determine the difference in smell between burning wood/grass, versus oil, plastic, electrical, etc. Granted my one airplane has a wood spar, but if that managed to catch fire I've probably got bigger problems.

As a pilot, I'd probably ask to deviate around an isolated smoke cloud, although your question was specific to being IMC so you wouldn't see it.

Now the last few summers we have been hit with smoke from distant wildfires, that has significantly reduced visibility and you could actually smell it. That was unavoidable, but you knew what it was.
 
Ever smelled burnt oil or hot wires? As the others mentioned, it’s very different from smoke that originates from brush or wood.
 
CT583 said:
pretty significant plume of smoke
Click to expand...
I wish what ATC vectored me through was that isolated

A few years ago I was coming back from SJC, when most of California was on fire. SJC was 'VFR' but 3-5 mile haze.. forget whet ceilings were. I got a typical DP which they vectored me off pretty readily and put me right on top of a fire TFR.. given that I was already IMC, haze, no ground visibility.. I couldn't actually see the plume they put me through until I was out the other side.. it kept getting darker, and darker, and smelled very smoky, like campfire. To answer the OP's question, the campfire smell is much different from I would assume burning industrial materials would be. But it certainly gave me pause. We 'got on top' around 10K on the way to our filed altitude of 11, and got the view behind us below. Had I been going the other direction and actually seen it I would have denied that vector / clearance

A friend got a photo out the back seat once we came out the other side
upload_2022-1-18_11-50-14.png

Lessons I learned that day
(1) smoke is not like typical IMC
(2) smoke is inherently scarier
(3) ATC will gladly put you right into a TFR, well technically on top of it, but right into a smoke plume
(4) 'VFR' METARs can be misleading
(5) your usual wx tools are largely useless
(6) surprisingly, there was no turbulence.. I'd have thought you'd get some convection but it was at least smooth

Here's a photo on approach to SJC a few days prior.. this wasn't so bad.. just an apocalyptic haze.. about 3 miles from the FAF and 10 from the airport
upload_2022-1-18_11-56-13.png
 
It never occurred to me that ATC radar could see smoke. I was flight following with APC on a very clear fall day. Sugar cane farmers were burning the stalks left from the harvest and a single plume of smoke was visible in the distance. The controller was obviously a new trainee and under supervision by an old pro. He called " Buildup at your 11 O'clock." I didn't want to cause embarrassment and just said "roger".
 
DrewG said:
I 've never flown through smoke, but would assume that your sense of smell would be a factor. If you're flying through smoke from a grass fire, you'd likely be able to smell the difference between that and something like an electrical or engine fire pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

RyanB said:
Ever smelled burnt oil or hot wires? As the others mentioned, it’s very different from smoke that originates from brush or wood.
Click to expand...

Since the question was asked on POA.... What if you're carrying hay bales as cargo?
 
flyingron said:
Depends what is burning. Wood smoke (forest fires or whatever) and house fires smell distinctly different than most things that will burn in a plane.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I have been lost in smoke from a wild fire, forest fire or whatever it is called, twice. I was in a 207 the first time and a 206 the second time. It was significant smoke, visibility was measured in inches. Neither time do I remember seeing smoke inside the plane. But I did smell it.

Smoke is relentless. The second time lost in smoke, after I landed and got out, the smoke got in my eyes and my eyes involuntarily closed. I felt my way back to the office.
 
Have also been in almost hard IMC in California wildfire smoke...not really fun to be in at all...but as others have said it is a district smell vs an electrical or other material smell...but I am in tune to the different smells of various materials burning as a result of both my profession and my youth.
 
clouds is just water vapor.. what worries me about smoke is that it's actual particulate matter. I started getting worried I'd have issues with comms, nav, GPS, ILS, engine. Luckily all was fine, but it's really no fun

Zeldman said:
I have been lost in smoke from a wild fire, forest fire or whatever it is called, twice. I was in a 207 the first time and a 206 the second time
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sounds awful. How did you make it back? GPS? VOR? ILS?


I seem to recall Juan Brown did a video about smoke.. he pulled up the automated weather for an airport that was right near the fires and it was showing clear skies and 5 mile viz.. the live webcam from the airport displayed a MUCH different reality..
 
Tantalum said:
sounds awful. How did you make it back? GPS? VOR? ILS?
Click to expand...

In the 207 that was around Chicken, AK. I turned away from where I hoped the mountains were and climbed until I broke out in the clear.

In the 206 that was near Tetlin (near Tok, AK) After entering the smoke I turned around and took a ded reckoning heading until I found the river, then I kept the river on my left side since there was a mountain on the other side of the river. I followed the river until it crossed the highway, then followed the highway until I was over town, then used my GPS to head towards the airport. I did a extended center line on my GPS to find final. As I was doing that some ahole announced he was taking off towards me. I really got on the radio saying there is NO visibility here and to wait until I land. He took off anyway with me on the radio giving my distance from the airport, heading and altitude. Turns out he was taking off in the other direction. :skeptical: I could see the tree tops under me, and when they disappeared I descended another 20 feet and the area under me was dark, so I hoped I was over the runway. I was.

Some folks say aviation is hours of sheer boredom followed with moments of sheer terror. I used up all my moments on this flight.
 
We’ve had horrible fire seasons the last few years and I’ve been IMC in smoke numerous times - and I mean actual IMC where the airports are going IFR and reporting 1-2sm, not just that the visibility is really really bad (which is also true).

Assuming it’s wildfire smoke, it just smells like a campfire and although it has to be “in” the cockpit, it’s not like you can see smoke wafting around you. I don’t think a structure fire could produce enough smoke to cause actual IMC, and when something is on fire in the plane - like when my alternator belt smoked - it’s a completely different smell that you’d recognize as such - burning rubber / electrical fire smell, etc.
 
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