V-Twin Down Janesville

Discussion in 'Aviation Mishaps' started by Mtns2Skies, Feb 16, 2021.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies En-Route

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  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  3. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Oh man.. bummer!
     
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  4. rk911

    rk911 Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    R.I.P.
     
  5. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    Just after taking off, reportedly. Sounds about 1 mile from the airport.
     
  6. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    They fuel up there?
     
  7. PeterNSteinmetz

    PeterNSteinmetz Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Would not survive long exposed in that weather.
     
  8. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    I mile from the airport, talking to the tower, I doubt they would have to fight any adverse wx(cold) very long.

    If they fueled, likely used routinely, tested, & the rest. We can assume the correct fuel was added, if any. Looks like Rwy 32 for departure, lighter NNW wind. There are some open areas around the airport, one still would have to pick & choose.
     
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  9. Pilots Of America Management

    Pilots Of America Management MC Announcements and Communication Management Council Member

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    Closed. Pending MC Review.

    Edit: The thread is being reopened, but we would like to remind everyone that personal attacks violate the Rules of Conduct, as they do not encourage healthy discussion. Those who engage in this type of behavior will be warned.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  10. RogerT

    RogerT Cleared for Takeoff

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    We're watching this closely, since we have the VTwin we've been building for a little over 2 years
    in Phase One flight testing now. I remember seeing the blue and white N13VT over at the factory.
    Most (all?) of the flying Twins were built at the builders center. We built ours at our hangar but
    we're only 100 miles from there so we would just drive over and look at some if we had a
    question. When I first heard about it I thought maybe it was misfueled and lost both engines because
    I didn't see how losing an engine would end the way it did. Being intimately familiar with every
    nut and bolt and piece in the plane, though, I can see some other issues that if mishandled could
    lead to a bad ending. Lots of questions ... I'm sure the NTSB and factory come up with some probabilities.
     
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  11. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I'll be keen to know the details of this as well. The V-Twin is my Tantalum-can-maybe-realistically-build-and-own-one-someday plane

    The miss-fueling thing crossed my mind as well..
     
  12. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    How many of those things are flying? Can't be that many.
     
  13. FredFenster

    FredFenster Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Got an email yesterday about a memorial gathering for the deceased from the local flight school, one of them was the head flight instructor at Appleton..
     
  14. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    This was serial number 20. I personally know of about 6 that are flying. So I'll make a wag at maybe 10.

    Edit: Just did a count. There are currently 6 V-Twins flying.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2021
  15. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    Anyone have an idea whether something like this, regarding insurance:

    - will affect other V-twins?

    - will affect other Velocities?

    or is E-AB its own strange game since every model is by a different manufacturer? I'd hate for the V-twin insurance market to get smothered in the cradle due to this incident. Like @Tantalum, this is on my "if I was gonna do E-AB..." short list :D
     
  16. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01 Pattern Altitude

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    I think that will depend upon what the cause of the accident is found to be.

    I too am watching this one closely. One onboard was a friend.

    I do know that the airplane had landing gear issues a few days before and some amount of circling the airport was done before they got the gear down. Related or not, no idea. Clearly the mains are down in the photos of the accident site.
     
  17. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    velocity insurance was koo koo for cocoa puffs as it is. Can't imagine these hen's teeth would particularly be more affordable to insure. But hey, 100% chance of missing the shots you don't take. Worst they can say is no.

    Personally I'm happy to go FG on the EAB side, since speed is easier to attain on less wetted area, making the RG headaches obsolete. That said, again based on velocity's insurance landscape, I just don't think the retract thing is the inflection point here, as much as the runway hog and canard layout is. Who knows these days, given we're still paying for Kobe's crash and the Boeing Maxes.
     
  18. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies En-Route

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    Turns out it was a prominent Wisconsin flight instructor and Staff Sgt. in the WI Air National Guard. I didn't know her personally, but several in the community hold her as a very highly regarded pilot. :frown:
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  19. RogerT

    RogerT Cleared for Takeoff

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    Don .. I was thinking 9 or 10 flying. There were 6 when we started ours with Ron’s being the last. It seems like 3 at the factory flew after that. And ours.
     
  20. ktup-flyer

    ktup-flyer En-Route

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    They landed at Janesville and took off not long after. I’m wondering if it was a fuel issue.
     
  21. AdamZ

    AdamZ Touchdown! Greaser!

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    This stinks. Condolences to those on POA who lost friends.
     
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  22. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    That's what was listed on the Velocity Owners site. Did a little more poking around and found 12 with airworthiness certs but one of them shows no flight history. So it was 11 flying and now it's 10.
     
  23. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies En-Route

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  24. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard Pattern Altitude

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    Am I the only one, that, upon seeing "V-Twin" thought Harley?
     
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  25. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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  26. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter

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    I was thinking more like Twin V-Tail Bonanza, not that there is one.

    Sad... :(
     
  27. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    Looks like it. :D
     
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  28. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01 Pattern Altitude

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    She was a class act with a bright future, her fiancé too. It's a punch in the gut. Another immediate family member died 5 days earlier. I feel for the family....

    Other pilot was a 25 year old FO flying CRJ200s for Air Wisconsin. I believe he had recently been accepted into Iowa's ANG to fly the A-10 as well.

    Just a senseless loss.
     
  29. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Sad to hear that. I’m anxious to see what happened.
     
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  30. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    It seems a terrible tragedy, with one family already in mourning before this loss.

    And it also reminds us, yet again, that light airplane GA is not without risk, even for people that fly a lot because its their vocation.
    Because a twin piston airplane was involved I too am interested to understand exactly what happened.

    Prayers for both the families.
     
  31. The-Flying-Lawyer

    The-Flying-Lawyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    V-twin builders - any idea what average best glide and landing speeds are on that airframe? It looks like the lowest groundspeed recorded on FR24 was 91 knots.
     
  32. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    Each airplane is different. The V-twin has the same wings and canard as the XL. On my plane best glide was as slow as I could get before the canard stalled (mid 60's). So I called it at 70. But the difference in glide ratio between 70 and 90 was minor so I used 90kts to get a little cushion.

    But like I said, each plane is different. I know one V-twin with a canard stall speed over 80. Builder isn't sure why though. No idea what they determined best glide speed on that plane is.
     
  33. RogerT

    RogerT Cleared for Takeoff

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    As part of our testing, we've been watching the pitch/buck (canard stall) as we move the CG back from
    the first flight box. Yesterday our test pilot was seeing around 66 kts while still having good roll control.
    That was probably around 3000 pounds.
     
  34. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/02/velocity-v-twin-n13vt-fatal-accident.html

    Lots of pictures & some info. They did add fuel in JVL, reported ‘engine problems’ then plan to return to the airport. Don’t know the fuel system, I’d have to think a ‘mis-fuel’ would be in the low likelihood category, 2 accomplished pilots onboard.

    Most ‘engine problems’ end up back to fuel issues of some kind. The one thing I wonder is, what would of been the outcome with no attempt to get back to any runway? Mostly just thinking out loud, didn’t look at ADS altitude & speed hits.
     
  35. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01 Pattern Altitude

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    The V-twin is equipped with a 5 gallon header tank per a Kitplanes article dated 2013.

    Sheer speculation on my part but if there was a misfuel incident, the header tank could have masked the problem long enough for them to fire up, runup, and get airborne.
     
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  36. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That's an understatement. I didn't know her well, but she was a real go-getter who accomplished a lot in her way-too-short (26 year) life. Staff Sergeant at the 115th Fighter Wing with several medals to her name, Pilot and flight instructor (and a damn good one based on the number of times I've seen people recommend her and praise her skills), Founding member of Women in Aviation International chapter in Madison, was working on her A&P, already had a Bachelor's in Business... She had much left to accomplish. :(

    RIP.

    [​IMG]
     
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  37. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    All Velocity's have a sump tank (what some call a header tank). 5 gallons is optimistic though. Probably closer to 4 gallons. But definitely enough to hide a misfueling until you're airborne.
     
  38. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01 Pattern Altitude

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    Fair enough. You likely know more than I do about it, which is not much:)

    I was just referencing the Kitplanes article. I blame them.
     
  39. donjohnston

    donjohnston Cleared for Takeoff

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    The sump for the RG is thinner than for fixed gear. I believe those can hold 5 gallons. Either way there’s enough fuel to get you in the air before discovering the problem.
     
  40. fiveoboy01

    fiveoboy01 Pattern Altitude

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