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Bob Noel
Do you think small GA needs runways longer than, say, 3000'? (at sea level, adjust the length for high DAs).
User Fees
- Thread starter spiderweb
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Do you think small GA needs runways longer than, say, 3000'? (at sea level, adjust the length for high DAs).
jmp470
Line Up and Wait
Why do we need paved 3,000' runways? Russia has 16,000 grass strips. Not that I want to compare the US to Russia, but why exactly do we need short paved runways? Europe uses grass too. While I have no experience operating a runway or airport, my gut tells me that it would be cheaper to use grass.
What do other people think?
How this ties into User fees, is why should we maintain runways with user fees?
What do other people think?
How this ties into User fees, is why should we maintain runways with user fees?
spiderweb
Final Approach
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Ben
Well, it rains a lot here, so there would be many days when a grass runway would be unusual, I suspect.
dell30rb
Final Approach
Nice to have a lit, paved runway at your destination if you are planning a trip somewhere.
ClimbnSink
Ejection Handle Pulled
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Greg
We pave runways because we are(were) rich enough to do so. Pave everything, we can't have dirty dirt near us.
You know I hate nature. Look at those disgusting trees stealing my oxygen Oh, I can’t stand this scenery another minute! All natural forests should be turned into housing developments! I want cement covering every blade of grass in this nation. Don’t we taxpayers have a voice anymore?
You know I hate nature. Look at those disgusting trees stealing my oxygen Oh, I can’t stand this scenery another minute! All natural forests should be turned into housing developments! I want cement covering every blade of grass in this nation. Don’t we taxpayers have a voice anymore?
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steingar
Taxi to Parking
Oh, because that paragon of aviation safety, Russia, does it we should follow suit? By the way, Europe and Russia, both of which have plenty of long paved runways, have collectively about as much GA as the state of Rhode Island. The reason they don't have much GA is because it's too bloody expensive. One of the reasons it's too bloody expensive is user fees.
A first for POA. Folks wanting us to be more like Europe.
jmp470
Line Up and Wait
Steingar,
Wow, you totally missed the point of my post and zeroed in on the political aspects of it, at which point, you overlooked my question. Please reread it. BLUF: Why do we need short paved runways? I understand commercial airports would still need paved runways, but why do small towns? In my opinion it is a waste of money and looks awful, which is why I believe communities are trying to close them down. For the sake of this argument, look at pictures of Meigs airport in Chicago that got closed down. Imagine that you could still land aircraft there, but on a grass vs. paved run way that was aesthetically pleasing to look at and user friendly. Also, imagine that it wasn’t fenced off and was open to the public for trailing running / walking/ biking, etc. One is a paved eye sore, while the other has charm and character and is part of the community and not blocked off.
Wow, you totally missed the point of my post and zeroed in on the political aspects of it, at which point, you overlooked my question. Please reread it. BLUF: Why do we need short paved runways? I understand commercial airports would still need paved runways, but why do small towns? In my opinion it is a waste of money and looks awful, which is why I believe communities are trying to close them down. For the sake of this argument, look at pictures of Meigs airport in Chicago that got closed down. Imagine that you could still land aircraft there, but on a grass vs. paved run way that was aesthetically pleasing to look at and user friendly. Also, imagine that it wasn’t fenced off and was open to the public for trailing running / walking/ biking, etc. One is a paved eye sore, while the other has charm and character and is part of the community and not blocked off.
Tarheel Pilot
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Tarheel Pilot
It's also the reason why those living in Europe come to the USA for flight lessons and learn how to be airline pilots.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Not every aircraft can land on grass. I don't like to, a turf strip already gouged a chip out of my nose wheel pant, I don't need any more. I know people with nice retractables who wouldn't go anywhere near a turf strip. A couple Mooney pilots have said the prop is sufficiently close to the ground to promote fears of a prop strike on turf.
It just isn't for everyone. And, where I live turf strips are unusable for a good-sized portion of the year, a portion during which I do lots of flying.
DaleB
Final Approach
I don't get this idea at all. If I were landing on a grass strip (or anywhere else), I would certainly not want it open for anyone to just wander out and picnic on. Or walk, ride, bike or whatever. Certainly not in anything even close to an urban area. You want joggers with ear buds stuffed in their ears using the runway when you're on final? Or wandering around the hangars of all the aircraft based at the field? Not I... maybe I'm not getting what you had in mind.
A grass strip would quickly become less than friendly during the Spring here, when the ground is likely to be wet and soft for a month or two at a stretch. One or two airplanes once in a while, no big deal. Several dozen or a hundred or two landings a day? Mud pit. And even if it would work for Cherokees and 172s, I doubt the Pilatus or the Lear would be quite as happy. There are reasons they started paving runways.
azure
Final Approach
Yep, turf is not an option if you want year-round access anywhere it rains or snows a lot. All else being equal, I will land on pavement if I have a choice between pavement and turf. But that's not to say that turf is not doable in an RG... yes the wheels are smaller, and I'll never land on turf without checking conditions first. But good, dry turf in good condition is very much an option even in my Cardinal RG. I just wouldn't want to be based somewhere it was the only option.
heilmanbw
Pre-Flight
Another thing is that around here if you had a grass strip on the edges of town that wasn't fenced off you would get a bunch of idiots on ATVs or something using it for fun. The end result of that would not be pretty. Whether a practical means is obvious or not there is usually a purpose behind everything.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
I hope you are saying this in jest.
If I understand the fuel tax arrangement, 65% of all fuel taxes are returned to the originating facility. The other 35% are distributed by state aeronautic associations to other aviation facilities in the state in which the fuel tax is collected.
So, if United, Frontier, Southwest, etc all pay $100,000 in fuel taxes at Denver Colorado, $65,000 is returned to DIA and the Colorado Aeronautics Board takes the other $35,000 and awards improvement grants to other airports in the state.
This means if you land at any airport in Colorado, you benefit from my purchase of fuel. And if I land at an airport in your state, I benefit from your purchase of fuel.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
John
Enjoy your turf field. But do not dictate to the rest of us. So - who do you know that will ensure the turf field will always be in good condition, no matter the day or time? Will they do this out of the goodness of their hearts or will you pay them? What mechanism will you use to pay them? How will you know where that turf field exists? How will you pay for the mapping and distribution of that data?
Welcome to infrastructure. If we follow your logic, we'd still be driving on dirt roads that wash out at every rain storm.
Everyone is entitled (within reason) to participate in the activities they enjoy most. Altho I can (and do) land on turf, I always prefer paved. I have a very high confidence that when I arrive, the runway will be in usable condition.
As for communities shutting them down - only because a developer has come into town and has convinced TPTB they can get more money by using the land for anything other than an airport.
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jmp470
Line Up and Wait
Murphey,
I'm just trying to think of something different, figure out a way to incorporate aviation into everyday life. As it stands now, it is dying and if we do not change some aspects of it, it will be gown forever. And I want my little girls to grow up with an airplane, and adventure in their lives.
How about a runway was fenced in, but had running/biking/walking trails along side of it. Or was designated a solar collection site, or wind collection site. Or combining the airport with drag racing... Something.... We pilots don't have enough clout or numbers to be effective! But if we could combine our cause with someone else's... Then maybe we would have a chance.
I'm just trying to think of something different, figure out a way to incorporate aviation into everyday life. As it stands now, it is dying and if we do not change some aspects of it, it will be gown forever. And I want my little girls to grow up with an airplane, and adventure in their lives.
How about a runway was fenced in, but had running/biking/walking trails along side of it. Or was designated a solar collection site, or wind collection site. Or combining the airport with drag racing... Something.... We pilots don't have enough clout or numbers to be effective! But if we could combine our cause with someone else's... Then maybe we would have a chance.