Useful or Waste of Money?

ARFlyer

ARFlyer

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ARFlyer
While thumbing through my PopSci magazine I came across this little device.

http://www.automatic.com ODB-II monitor for iPhone.

I would find a device like this very useful. From saving gas to seeing what my P type engine codes are. I actually miss my mothers Honda Insight as it would give you real time feedback. I am not afraid to call my self a techno geek.

However, after reading some reviews it seems that people are very mixed on the product. Some love it and some totally hate it.

Some are bickering about the location tracking and required VIN input. Frankly I don't care as I'm not the tin foil hat wearing fan. I already use location tracking apps and services so I could care less if companies and the government know my travel habits. So please refrain on going ape on this feature.

I want something that will monitor my MPG and give feedback on my driving style. I'm already eating through two tanks of gas a week. Plus throw in some engine monitoring. I have found better products in the engine monitoring area but they either require android or a jail broken iPhone.

So what are y'all's thought on this product? Yay or Nay?
 
I bought one a few months ago.

It is a fun toy. I enjoy having it track and give me feedback on my driving habits, and I think as the app evolves it will continue to add more functionality.

And for the $60 it costs I didn't think it was too bad of a deal.

-Dan
 
Don't know about the ap, Andrew, but I found it hilarious that they used the mini-cooper in their ad since it holds the notorious distinction of being the worst quality car on the road. You'd probably need a dozen or so related "rescue me" aps if you owned a mini! :goofy:
 
dweyant said:
I bought one a few months ago.

It is a fun toy. I enjoy having it track and give me feedback on my driving habits, and I think as the app evolves it will continue to add more functionality.

And for the $60 it costs I didn't think it was too bad of a deal.

-Dan
Click to expand...

How is the mapping part of it? I've heard that it actually doesn't map your route. It just shows the most efficient route regardless on how you got there.

Also can it run in the background ? I like to listen to my podcasts and have Waze up for traffic and police locations.
 
What Doc posted buy a $12 dollar bluetooth code reader. Useful enough to have around.
 
ARFlyer said:
How is the mapping part of it? I've heard that it actually doesn't map your route. It just shows the most efficient route regardless on how you got there.

Also can it run in the background ? I like to listen to my podcasts and have Waze up for traffic and police locations.
Click to expand...

It runs in the background on my iPhone. It shows the route I drove, how much money I spent in gas (pulls average fuel prices off the internet) and gives you a score based on breaking, accelerating, etc.

Since it runs as a background app you can use your phone for anything else you'd like while driving. Actually it won't even show your current route until you turn off the car.
 
steingar said:
The day I need a machine to tell me how to drive is the day I hang it up for good.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we all know you're the best driver, pilot, and everything else in the world. :rolleyes:

The point of this device is for people who want to know more about their car and about their driving. If you want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead.
 
ARFlyer said:
How is the mapping part of it? I've heard that it actually doesn't map your route. It just shows the most efficient route regardless on how you got there.
Click to expand...

No, it really does show the route you took. However, if you zoom way in, it may show you slightly off the route you actually took - According to their FAQ it's because they don't want to burn up your battery by keeping the GPS on constantly, so it only checks every minute or so.

Also can it run in the background ? I like to listen to my podcasts and have Waze up for traffic and police locations.
Click to expand...

Yes, in fact you don't have to remember to launch it to track the trips - They've done a very good job with the background triggering, I rarely launch the app but it appears to have all of my trips.
 
If you are in love with GARMIN there is always their ODB ECO-Route -HD Diagnostics Communicator. It connects to most Nuvi's and GARMIN has a free APP you can download. Since I have GARMIN Nuvi's, this seemed like an ideal add-on. While the APP provides more data, I do not have any car mounts for the cellphone so it isn't hndy to use.
If I recall correctly, your $2400 GARMIN 496 connects to the ODB Communicator as well.
 
Being somewhat familiar with OBD-II, I don't see how this thing can tell you MPG. It can tell you parts of it, but it will have to do some guessing. It has to get ahold of your fuel trims, tach, and injector pulse width. It has to just know your actual fuel flow per injector and the number of injectors -- this isn't published in PIDs, and the actual flow is unknowable (hence the fuel trims).

So, you'll be optimizing a guess. Maybe better than random, but a guess. I wouldn't believe the specific MPG numbers given, but if it's decently designed (and that's a really big if), you might be able to compare one measurement to another in the same vehicle.

There are substantially better low tech solutions. The single best thing you can do for economy is to put a brick under your accelerator. If you need some gadget to tell you to do that, you can install a manifold vacuum gauge and keep the vacuum above 10 PSI.

Keep the tach in the power band, seldom below 1500 RPM (that's a common error), keep the tires inflated properly, throw out all the unnecessary crap from the trunk, fill the seats with people who would otherwise drive their own cars, and keep it repaired and tuned up. Deal with check engine lights.

You absolutely do not need a GPS to tell you MPG. It tells you absolutely nothing that you can't get from on-board sensors, like the driveshaft sensor (VSS) or cam/crank sensor + transmission mode. You'll get increased accuracy in the numerator, but you'll still have crap in the denominator, so it's still crap.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Being somewhat familiar with OBD-II, I don't see how this thing can tell you MPG. It can tell you parts of it, but it will have to do some guessing. It has to get ahold of your fuel trims, tach, and injector pulse width. It has to just know your actual fuel flow per injector and the number of injectors -- this isn't published in PIDs, and the actual flow is unknowable (hence the fuel trims).

So, you'll be optimizing a guess. Maybe better than random, but a guess. I wouldn't believe the specific MPG numbers given, but if it's decently designed (and that's a really big if), you might be able to compare one measurement to another in the same vehicle.

There are substantially better low tech solutions. The single best thing you can do for economy is to put a brick under your accelerator. If you need some gadget to tell you to do that, you can install a manifold vacuum gauge and keep the vacuum above 10 PSI.

Keep the tach in the power band, seldom below 1500 RPM (that's a common error), keep the tires inflated properly, throw out all the unnecessary crap from the trunk, fill the seats with people who would otherwise drive their own cars, and keep it repaired and tuned up. Deal with check engine lights.

You absolutely do not need a GPS to tell you MPG. It tells you absolutely nothing that you can't get from on-board sensors, like the driveshaft sensor (VSS) or cam/crank sensor + transmission mode. You'll get increased accuracy in the numerator, but you'll still have crap in the denominator, so it's still crap.
Click to expand...

It seems to be quite accurate for me.

-Dan
 
MAKG1 I do not know about the one from automatic.com. I have a scangauge and yes it "guesses" but you calibrate it when you file up and tell it how fuel you used. So the "guessing" gets better over time.
 
MAKG1 said:
Keep the tach in the power band, seldom below 1500 RPM (that's a common error)
Click to expand...

I've often wondered - Is there any way to get torque, hp, and bsfc curves for a particular engine from the manufacturer (or anyone else)? Do they ever cough that stuff up, or is there anyone who does enough dyno testing and reverse engineering to publish it?
 
ARFlyer said:
http://www.automatic.com ODB-II monitor for iPhone.

I would find a device like this very useful. From saving gas to seeing what my P type engine codes are. I actually miss my mothers Honda Insight as it would give you real time feedback. I am not afraid to call my self a techno geek.

However, after reading some reviews it seems that people are very mixed on the product. Some love it and some totally hate it.
Click to expand...

I've got one. I like it, but it's not quite as geeky as I'd like. ;)

My Volvo has real-time MPG as one display option in the dash, and that's usually where I leave it. In late 2008, after taking it on a long trip and noticing how much the mileage improved, I decided to see what I could do in my day-to-day driving to improve MPG. I read about hypermiling and used my engineering knowledge to change my driving style. Now, I average about 27-28 MPG on a car that's got an EPA rating of 21 city and 26 highway.

The Jeep, however, has no such MPG monitor, and my wife drives it somewhat aggressively in comparison to me - She drives it like the average person, not realizing what a difference in mileage can be had with relatively little difference in speed and acceleration. I decided to see if I could help her drive a bit better as well as check on some codes without a trip to the shop.

In addition to reading codes, it has some internal accelerometers. Even without a phone, it gives you some audio feedback if you accelerate or brake too hard (I think there's another one, but I forget what).

I wish it did more, but really it's limitations of the app, not the hardware. They do have an API now for third-party developers to write more apps for it, so if you're extra-geeky you don't necessarily have to wait for Automatic to add your desired features to their app.

You get a score each week based on your driving, but my score my first week was 100 because I already drive in a pretty efficient manner. It seems to have pre-set thresholds for how much acceleration and braking is too much, and it never adjusts them as the driver improves.

Pros: Easy, good UI. They seem to be concentrating on making their features good at release rather than coming out with a gazillion features that work like crap, and it seems they come out with new releases at a decent pace.

Cons: No true real-time feedback - There's no "current MPG" in the app (yet, anyway), it seems to be meant for analyzing afterwards. You can't get to the data directly (though I'd imagine the API will let you if you want to go to those lengths). There isn't a code for everything, so I still don't know why my ABS light is on. No way (yet at least) to tell it who's driving.

I'm reasonably happy with the purchase and I've thought about getting another one for the other car, but I think I'll hold off and see what they come up with next.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I've often wondered - Is there any way to get torque, hp, and bsfc curves for a particular engine from the manufacturer (or anyone else)? Do they ever cough that stuff up, or is there anyone who does enough dyno testing and reverse engineering to publish it?
Click to expand...

The only ones I've seen have come from "desktop dyno" programs and should be taken with a grain of salt. Or else they are measured on a dynamometer with the engine in question (expensive). This is the gold standard, but it's not very practical for an everyday joe.

The butt dyno isn't that bad for finding the power band, in a street application. Feel where it responds and where it doesn't, in a given gear. A lot of people assume that lower RPM is lower fuel consumption. In practice, cruising much under 2000 RPM on a modern vehicle probably is going to be counterproductive. Sometimes it can be higher, particularly for small OHC engines. My VW 1.8L (8V) prefers 3000 RPM.
 
If I can't drive the vehicle normally and afford fuel for it, I shouldn't own the vehicle. Full rental power!
 
denverpilot said:
If I can't drive the vehicle normally and afford fuel for it, I shouldn't own the vehicle. Full rental power!
Click to expand...

Not sayin' I can't afford the fuel - Just sayin' I don't want to spend any more money on it than I have to! That way I can put more fuel in the airplane! :)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yeah, we all know you're the best driver, pilot, and everything else in the world. :rolleyes:

The point of this device is for people who want to know more about their car and about their driving. If you want to stick your head in the sand, go ahead.
Click to expand...

Don't mind if I do. I spend most of my time on my bikes and some of it in my cage avoiding collisions with folks too absorbed with their frucking screens to actually be bothered with looking out the windshield of the vehicle they're supposed to be driving.
 
steingar said:
Don't mind if I do. I spend most of my time on my bikes and some of it in my cage avoiding collisions with folks too absorbed with their frucking screens to actually be bothered with looking out the windshield of the vehicle they're supposed to be driving.
Click to expand...

The app does not give any useful feedback while driving, only afterwards. Nice try, though.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The app does not give any useful feedback while driving, only afterwards. Nice try, though.
Click to expand...

I'm far more worried about not crashing into the distracted than I am about my frucking mileage! Besides, not driving a land yacht my fuel bills aren't all that bad.
 
steingar said:
I'm far more worried about not crashing into the distracted than I am about my frucking mileage!
Click to expand...

Sounded like you were implying that users of this device would be looking at their phones a lot more. They're not (any more than they normally would, anyway).

Besides, not driving a land yacht my fuel bills aren't all that bad.
Click to expand...

Same here, but better is still better. I've improved my mileage by 25%. At 15,000 miles/year, that's about a $400 savings.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Same here, but better is still better. I've improved my mileage by 25%. At 15,000 miles/year, that's about a $400 savings.
Click to expand...

If you really improved it by THAT much, you were really screwing up somewhere.

Driven sensibly, you would be hard pressed to measure the difference.

Be really careful. The placebo effect is intoxicating here. And it's extremely common to see wildly mistaken reports of improved mileage. For instance, I occasionally see people proud of getting 20 MPG out of a Ranger, claiming they improved from 15. Except even the worst pig of a Ranger can get in the low 20s unloaded when driven over 2000 RPM all the time and doing nothing else.

The only thing I could see you doing that would account for a mileage change that bad is stomping the throttle at low RPM. Then, the giveaway is the rattling sound from the detonation (or just **** poor acceleration as the computer retards the timing to prevent that). Maybe very frequent jackrabbit starts and stops, but it would have to be extreme.

Or maybe you just short sticked yourself on your last tank (early pump shutoff). It happens rather frequently.
 
MAKG1 said:
If you really improved it by THAT much, you were really screwing up somewhere.

Driven sensibly, you would be hard pressed to measure the difference.
Click to expand...

I was getting what would be expected based on the EPA ratings. Now, I beat the EPA ratings handily - I've had it as high as 31.3 mpg in warmer weather (21/26 EPA rated, mostly city driving).

I'm actually shifting earlier than before (5-speed manual). I rarely top 2500 RPM now (previously I was generally in the 2000-3000 RPM band). I cruise as close to the top side of 1500 as I can get, and shift down from there for acceleration depending on how much acceleration I want. I'm barely touching the pedal at 1500. 3rd @ 1500 = 23 mph, 4th @ 1500 = 30 mph, 5th @ 1500 = 38 mph. I'll cruise at 40 or so in a 35mph zone to have it in 5th.
 
steingar said:
Don't mind if I do. I spend most of my time on my bikes and some of it in my cage avoiding collisions with folks too absorbed with their frucking screens to actually be bothered with looking out the windshield of the vehicle they're supposed to be driving.
Click to expand...

That is how I feel sharing the sky with GPS babies.:)
 
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