US PPL - from overseas

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blueraincap

Filing Flight Plan
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Mar 31, 2014
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blueraincap
Hi, I am from and live/work in a developed Asian country.
been interested in learning to fly and now finding ways to get a PPL.
flying school are close to nonexistemt in Asia, so am looking at US. but would like to spend as little time in the US and money as possible, so as much self study as possible.

I spent some time researching the process but there are still many things I need to be enlightened on. please educate me.

is my below understanding correct? please comment and advise

1. I get the relevant medical check done as required by FAA

2. I buy the materials and begin self study, no ground school (waste of time and money since I am good at studying)

3. once ready, join a flying club and write the paper exam

4. if passed, start flight training with the flying club I joined (when I visit the US)

5. since I will take a holiday and come just for the flight training, I want to fly as much as possible when here. say 4 hours a day (4-5 days in a row)? is that possible?

6. so depending on my progress, I can complete my flight training on my 3rd visit.

7. do the final flight exam and become one of you
 
Not quite.

You will first of all need TSA clearance to be able to begin flight training. It's a security and vetting process that requires some form of student visa (normally M-1 or F-1). This must first be obtained via American consulate or through an integrated part 141 flight school (that will help you with the visa).

You can not, as far as I know, get TSA approval as a tourist attending a part 61 school. For that you'll need a work visa or a green card (hard to impossible).

Once that's done and you're preliminary TSA approved, you need to take finger prints. This can sometimes be done in your home country.

After that you need an FAA medical, class 3 at least. This can sometimes be done abroad if the AME is FAA approved. If not, do it when you get to the US.

Then you're ready for both ground school and integrated training at the part 141 school.

If you somehow have a work visa or green card and can train at a part 61 school, then you can just book each lesson as you go along and do it in your own time. No need to join a flying club. But as I said, unless you have that visa, this is not an option.

You can take written/theoretical test at any designated FAA test centre. You do not have to have done the test before you start flight training.

Good luck.
 
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blueraincap said:
Thanks!! i didnt know that at all
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There are a number of schools that specialize on overseas students and will be able to walk you through the process, visa TSA etc.
Just a word of caution though. There is a long history of flight schools taking large deposits from overseas students an then going bankrupt. So whatever you do, do not give anyone a deposit for a substantial part of the course. They may require you to provide a bank letter that shows that you have enough money for the proposed course of study (required for an F1 visa), but anyone who is telling you that prepayment is a goverment requirement is a lying scoundrel and probably broke.
 
In addition to the legal aspects, I have a bit of a concern over what you seem to say your plan is. If I understand you, you're thinking that you're going to visit the US for about a week on three separate occasions, and you think you can get 16-20 hours of flight in on each of these occasions, and then take your flight exam and come out of it with your ticket. In all likelihood, it's never going to work out that way.

First, you don't indicate how much time there will be between each visit (and therefore how much time off from your lessons); this is very important though. If you train for a bit, then leave for a while before continuing, you're going to spend a bit of time re-training things you've forgotten.

Second, while it's certainly possible to train for 4 to 5 hours a day for 4 or 5 days in a row, there are factors that will work against you. To do this, you're counting on having a CFI available for you -- it's rare to find them just sitting around looking for something to do, so this could be a problem. You're counting on having an aircraft available to you -- hopefully that's the least concern, but planes do have to be taken down for maintenance, both planned and unexpected. Finally, you're counting on the weather cooperating. This is often the least predictable of the trio.

Finally, once you've completed all the requirements (which include convincing your CFI that you are ready to pass the practical exam), you have to get the DPE scheduled. That's often not easy to do without a several week delay -- and you don't want to sit around not flying during that several weeks, or you'll be surprised how quickly these new abilities you've learned fade away.

If you want to complete your training as quickly and inexpensively as possible, go find a large full time part 141 school and plan on at least three weeks (but be prepared for more). Weather is always a factor but this gives you the best opportunity for quickly skipping past aircraft issues (if they have a large enough fleet of aircraft), finding a CFI (as long as you con't care which of the school's instructors fly with you on any given lesson), and DPE scheduling (as many schools have their own dedicated DPE). You'll definitely want to verify each of these (parenthesized) statements before committing to a school though!
 
He won't be able to do that if he wants the school to provide a visa. That'll be a more integrated course, with ground school and flying intertwined. Can't dip in and out of those.
 
You don't need to do Part 141 to get a visa, you just need a school that is Part 141 approved to issue the I-20.

Entry requirements etc with M1 visa, now thats another story :)
 
now i think it wont work.
will look at another country
 
do you guys know or suggest another country where my plan would work, without needing to get a visa? all i want is to learn flying and fly a plane when I go travelling overseas.
 
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blueraincap said:
do you guys know or suggest another country where my plan would work, without needing to get a visa? all i want is to learn flying and fly a plane when I go travelling overseas.
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Why the fear of getting a visa ? Once you have the paperwork ( form i20) you have a set time to complete the program. With h the student visa you are free to enter and leave he country. As mentioned, taking 3-4 weeks in one block and going to a major training center is going to be your best bet.
 
blueraincap said:
do you guys know or suggest another country where my plan would work, without needing to get a visa? all i want is to learn flying and fly a plane when I go travelling overseas.
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Do you speak Spanish? ;)
 
i don't want to get a student visa, just too much hassle.
training in canada also requires a student visa?
 
look at south africa. Great weather so you can get on as many hours as possible, and in general what you learn will be more closely aligned with JAA as compared with FAA regulated schools in the US. If that means anything to you, maybe you don't care.

It's probably more about where you will do your flying holidays in the future. If you are going to visit america for a couple weeks each year to fly then learn there. If you want to fly in europe on holiday in the future but don't want the expense of learning there, then SA might be a good bet.
 
Jeff, thanks.

I was looking at Australia but don't like the costs there (I have been to OZ many times and aware of its low quality but expensive nature).

I think I will equally vacation in Europe and North America, so am neutral on FAA vs JAA.

I took a look into S.Africa, but it is too far from Asia.

How about Finland/Sweden? The costs are more reasonable than other parts of Europe.

http://www.ttt-aviation.com/en/distance-learning
Thanks. :D
 
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Actually simply put, my question is where shall a person based in Asia go for his PPL training, satisfying 1. flexible route, flight training while on holidays, 2. not too far from Asia (South Africa is far), 3. okay with a tourist visa (too much hassle), 4. not too expensive.

Thanks!!!
 
Forget TTT aviation. They have very shady reputation. The owner has lost his license a few times due to getting caught with parker hours, offering air transport without a valid AOC etc etc etc.

I believe the cheapest PPL in Europe at the moment would be in Poland. Try Bartolini Air, www.flyinpoland.com
They are responsive to emails and have a good reputation.
 
I have emailed some schools in Spain, Greece, Sweden, but all I got are some general replies without answering my questions.

I am wondering what is the most efficient way to complete the theoretical training part? Is it possible to study on my own and skip the ground school? I don't wanna take a holiday and go all the way to Europe and just end up sitting in the classroom while I can study on my own. Thanks
 
Realistically speaking, based on everything you've said here, pilot training is not for you. I'm sure that sounds harsh and I mean nothing personal by it, but if you're not willing to jump through the hoops, not willing to spend the money, and not willing to take the learning process serious enough to not relegate it to a vacation past time, you'll probably live longer by looking for a different thrill.
 
C182P said:
Realistically speaking, based on everything you've said here, pilot training is not for you. I'm sure that sounds harsh and I mean nothing personal by it, but if you're not willing to jump through the hoops, not willing to spend the money, and not willing to take the learning process serious enough to not relegate it to a vacation past time, you'll probably live longer by looking for a different thrill.
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on the contrary. Many many people fit their year's flying into a 2 week holiday once a year because they have no other affordable choice. Many FBO's in florida, arizona, and johannesburg live off of those people.
 
JHW said:
on the contrary. Many many people fit their year's flying into a 2 week holiday once a year because they have no other affordable choice. Many FBO's in florida, arizona, and johannesburg live off of those people.
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If he were planning to fly for 2 weeks of solid training (unlikely to be enough, but theoretically possible) and then continue flying afterwards, then sure. That's not his plan though.

First, his training intention is:
5. since I will take a holiday and come just for the flight training, I want to fly as much as possible when here. say 4 hours a day (4-5 days in a row)? is that possible?

6. so depending on my progress, I can complete my flight training on my 3rd visit.
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with unspecified time off between each session (but it's probably safe to assume a reasonable time between vacations).

Second, he's unwilling to put up with the "hassle" of the student visa, which (to me) suggests a lack of patience that will lead to not wanting to put up with the hassle of various ADM safety requirements.

Third, his cost concerns suggest (to me) that he's not going to remain current much beyond ability to fly during vacations -- not exactly a recipe for success.
 
C182P said:
If he were planning to fly for 2 weeks of solid training (unlikely to be enough, but theoretically possible) and then continue flying afterwards, then sure. That's not his plan though.
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enough for what? You are trapped by the thinking that acquiring a certificate is the end game. Many people just want to fly and care little about a piece of plastic with pictures of my dead distant kin.

We all might take some sort of lesson from those people the next time we get wrapped around the axle over some regulatory sideline and lose sight of the fact that we are a part of the tiny sliver of human history that can realize the dream of flying.
 
JHW said:
enough for what? You are trapped by the thinking that acquiring a certificate is the end game. Many people just want to fly and care little about a piece of plastic with pictures of my dead distant kin.
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I'm really not sure how you gather that from what I said. I'm suggesting that the cert is _not_ the end game, which is why training in sporadic doses, followed by what would presumably be sporadic currency in the future would be a safety problem. On the other hand, for people that only "care little about a piece of plastic with pictures of my dead distant kin", the certificate _is_ the end game.

Did you even read what he's planning, or are you just looking to argue in a non sequitur manner? I don't mind a debate but your end of it so far seems to be driven by something other than the content of this thread, which is non-productive. I've backed up my concerns based on what the OP has stated his intentions are, and if I've lacked clarity I'm happy to try to explain my points further. Your responses, while applaudably optimistic towards flying and flight training in general, seem to raise points which do not apply to this OP -- the person who created this thread and is looking for specific advice.
 
weilke said:
There is a reason the big flight training organizations are in AZ and FL.

Iceland would be a great place to get an instrument rating.
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But Iceland has 23-24 hours of summer daylight.
 
My son is in the process of getting his PPL in Australia and intends to continue to a CPL. He is looking to do some flying in the USA. Will there be any obstacles in getting his PPL recognised in the USA?
 
Pietrangelo said:
My son is in the process of getting his PPL in Australia and intends to continue to a CPL. He is looking to do some flying in the USA. Will there be any obstacles in getting his PPL recognised in the USA?
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It is commonly done. The FAA certificate states 'issued based n CAA license #123456 and only valid when carried together with that license' or something to that effect.

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/foreign_license_verification/
 
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