Upset/recovery training

[Dave Siciliano]

Well, Scott Purdue (Gunny) has convinced me I will benefit from Upset/recovery training; so, this Friday and Saturday, we'll be out in his Extra working on his program.

When he initially proposed this course several months ago, I was a sceptic; asked why I would need something like this when I liked keeping the blue side up and never had had a problem with that. After some talking and reviewing a couple accident reports, I can now see how it could be beneficial; so, here goes.

Those of you that know me realize my planes have been kinds of mini airliners; not aerobatic instruments. I've done a couple rolls and loops in an RV and didn't enjoy that enough to run down that road. Anyway, we'll see how it goes and see how beneficial I believe it is after getting Gunny's advise and flying in the Extra.

Diana knows about this and wants a first hand report. She thinks I may want an Extra after this program

Best,

Dave

 

[Bill]

She thinks I may want an Extra after this program

I was thinking after reading the 1st line of your post that you may have to add an aircraft to your list. Extra = addictive.

 

[tonycondon]

After doing this course Dave, you will enjoy aerobatics and you will want an Extra, I speak from experience...

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Uhhh Ohhhh, maybe I should pass on this course

Best,

Dave

 

[tonycondon]

you know how your parents told you that if you kept making that face it would stick? well if i wouldve flown much longer with chip at Gastons, i think my face woulda been stuck in a big huge smile forever. enjoy it dave.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

After doing this course Dave, you will enjoy aerobatics and you will want an Extra, I speak from experience...

Yup. And a used one will only set you back about a quarter mil.

I must admit that sometimes I leave Chip's spin video playing in the background on my computer.

 

[write-stuff]

Don't become too excited about acro training. Upset recovery training is an entirely different animal. Now, I'm sure he'll show you some rolls, loops, and half Cubans, but the brute force techniques for LOC recoveries is not aerobatic-style stuff at all.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Well, I finished half the course today. Awesome is all I can say.

Gunny is quite the teacher. Explained everything before we did it; then we got in the plane and he demonstrated each maneuver as many times as I requested; then we did 'em.

The Extra moved exceedingly well; you almost thought about going somewhere and it did. We did spins and recovery; stalls and nose low; stalls in a steep turn; nose high recovery and inverted recoveries.

Really a kick. Interesting to understand the aerodynamics which he adeptly explained.

More tomorrow; so, I have to go. But no doubt, this could become an addiction!!

Best,

Dave

 

[CJones]

Sounds like a fun and (hopefully not) useful bit of training. I've been thinking about taking dad somewhere to do upset recovery training before we start trying to do any light aerobatics in the RV. Besides that, it would be good training to have under the belt.

-Chris

 

[Diana]

Gunny is quite the teacher. Explained everything before we did it; then we got in the plane and he demonstrated each maneuver as many times as I requested; then we did 'em.

The Extra moved exceedingly well; you almost thought about going somewhere and it did. We did spins and recovery; stalls and nose low; stalls in a steep turn; nose high recovery and inverted recoveries.

Really a kick. Interesting to understand the aerodynamics which he adeptly explained.

Dave this is just how it was with Chip in the Extra. He did an excellent job when flying this program with me.

But no doubt, this could become an addiction!!

Yep, I blame Chip for my love and understanding of aerobatics and spins (and recoveries).

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Well, I don't know how I can relate today's lesson and flight in simple words.

Overall I feel I did pretty well and Gunny seemed to confirm that, but the entire course became worthwhile to me when I made a mistake Friday. Scott let me make the error and recover; it became immediately clear I did the wrong thing and had I been lower it could have been my last act as a pilot. We talked about it at the time, but, today he played two computer generated accident simulations where commercial pilots with a plane full of passengers made the same error and it was fatal. The planes got turned about 130 degrees and nose low by turbulent winds and the pilots pulled back on the yoke until they augured in.

So, overall, the course was great fun and I felt capable of recovering from all the positions and situation Scott put me in (except that one--the first time).

Today, we flew many of the same maneuvers to reinforce how to react and for Scott to see if I was safe. Bear in mind, there were no points for style, technique, recovery altitude or heading. Everything was just measured by my ability to safely recover in a reasonable time within a reasonable envelope. Scott got comfortable fairly quickly; then, asked if there was anything else I wanted to do.

So....a few rolls. A couple loops. Some maneuvers Gunny will have to explain and I asked to just fly upside down for awhile--which he let me do.

What fun!

I can see how this opens a new door to understanding how to fly the plane in a completely different realm. A door that can lead to one wearing that "special smile" that only others that have walked through these footsteps can fully understand

Best,

Dave

 

[tonycondon]

So....a few rolls. A couple loops. Some maneuvers Gunny will have to explain and I asked to just fly upside down for awhile--which he let me do.

I have always joked about sustained inverted while instructing, to see if student is listening to me, something like "well today we are going to do rectangular courses, climb up do steep turns, then power off stalls, sustained inverted, and back for some landings"

After I sustained inverted with Chip, I decided I could make a habit out of it. quite fun, especially when you stow all loose items

 

[SCCutler]

Dave, does "Gunny" do this instruction on a regular basis, i.e., for mere mortals (who own no Beechcraft aluminum yet)?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Spike: He'd really rather do this in the Extra for several reasons; one is where I pointed out--vortices turns you inverted and nose down on the approach. Also, utility class planes have limits which wouldn't allow many maneuvers; or, if they did, no margin for error if the student muffs something.

Gunny will be a speaker at RFC in September. He's not there to give a commercial, but will certainly talk about why training like this is beneficial.

As has been pointed out, the control effort is much different in the Extra and it is highly responsive; so, an argument can be made for a more realistic plane; however, at least now I generally know what to do and which way to push!

Best,

Dave

 

[gismo]

Spike: He'd really rather do this in the Extra for several reasons; one is where I pointed out--vortices turns you inverted and nose down on the approach. Also, utility class planes have limits which wouldn't allow many maneuvers; or, if they did, no margin for error if the student muffs something.

Gunny will be a speaker at RFC in September. He's not there to give a commercial, but will certainly talk about why training like this is beneficial.

As has been pointed out, the control effort is much different in the Extra and it is highly responsive; so, an argument can be made for a more realistic plane; however, at least now I generally know what to do and which way to push!

Best,
Dave

Dave, I've practiced something like upset recovery in several different airplanes and had no trouble with the different control feel/responsiveness except that those with really light control force and quick response are a bit trickier as far as avoiding secondary stalls etc. Therefore I think you'd find that training in the Extra will translate very well into "normal" airplanes. The tough part is reacting with control force in the right direction(s) and that applies the same for an Extra or a 747.

 

[Scott 'Gunny' Perdue]

Dave, does "Gunny" do this instruction on a regular basis, i.e., for mere mortals (who own no Beechcraft aluminum yet)?

Spike-

The short answer is yes... let's figure out a schedule. And Dave is right I do this in the Extra so we won't break an airplane when things get 'unusual'.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Dave, I've practiced something like upset recovery in several different airplanes and had no trouble with the different control feel/responsiveness except that those with really light control force and quick response are a bit trickier as far as avoiding secondary stalls etc. Therefore I think you'd find that training in the Extra will translate very well into "normal" airplanes. The tough part is reacting with control force in the right direction(s) and that applies the same for an Extra or a 747.

Thanks for your thoughts Lance.

Best

Builder of the Great (underground) Wall.