Upgrading a 67 Cherokee

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Fredd Baber

Filing Flight Plan
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Oct 28, 2021
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freddb
Finally taking the plunge and joining this group. I have a 1967 Piper Cherokee with a low time engine but old avionics. I took it to a reputable shop and they are having a hair pulling out contest trying to figure out how to arrange my panel. Mine has the funky 6 pack layout pictured below, and they can't seem to agree on how to install the indicators as putting them on the right side of the radio stack isn't "in the pilot's field of vision". They have to keep the 6 pack, and there isn't a lot of real estate directly in front of me so was wondering what others have done to make their older Cherokee's IFR capable. Thanks.
 

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Boy, that's a loaded question. What's your budget? Lots of options for your plane depending on how much you want to spend.
 
rbridges said:
Boy, that's a loaded question. What's your budget? Lots of options for your plane depending on how much you want to spend.
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Since I already have two comms (KX155 and the KLX135 and one VOR/LOC indicator) I was hoping to get away with just a 375 and a second indicator. I wanted to simply move my tachometer down into an empty hole in the panel (to the right of the stack) and then add a 209 (or similar) indicator in that spot. I figured $12-15k would do it. But when they said that they can't do that because they're not in my direct field of view, that whole plan got scrapped. So now we're looking at multiple changes (2 G5's, a Garmin MFD that I'd never heard of, etc) that look to push the price to well over $25k. Far more than I ever expected.
 
If an Avionics shop doesn't know then Im sure Im of no help but I would have to ask how about relocating the clock. Then a different year of Piper plastic overlay? Custom? Where there is $$$ there is a way. When I look at TAP as if it were porn I'm always rearranging the panels in my mind of those years of Cherokees.
 
Fredd Baber said:
...(2 G5's, a Garmin MFD that I'd never heard of, etc) that look to push the price to well over $25k. Far more than I ever expected.
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Garmin dealers? Whatever they say I would think there is an alternative brand thats ~25% less expensive...or used equipment.
 
Would a dual gi275 installation paired with the GNX375 give you pretty much everything for about $15k in equipment cost and no panel surgery required? Keep the existing VOR+Indicator and comms, and remove all the other 3 1/8 gauges from the six pack if you want? I think the dual gi275 install allows removal of the attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, vsi, and airspeed indicator...
 
bid shader said:
Would a dual gi275 installation paired with the GNX375 give you pretty much everything for about $15k in equipment cost and no panel surgery required? Keep the existing VOR+Indicator and comms, and remove all the other 3 1/8 gauges from the six pack if you want? I think the dual gi275 install allows removal of the attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, vsi, and airspeed indicator...
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Why wouldn't I use (2) G5's instead? They're slightly cheaper than the the GI 275 (about $1k each cheaper actually). (2) G5's and a 375 installation, IMHO, would be in the @25k range, which puts me over budget again.
 
Fredd Baber said:
Why wouldn't I use (2) G5's instead? They're slightly cheaper than the the GI 275 (about $1k each cheaper actually). (2) G5's and a 375 installation, IMHO, would be in the @25k range, which puts me over budget again.
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My mistake, I thought you were somewhat tight on panel space. The 2x gi275 allows removal of all the legacy 6-pack instruments (or as many as you want to remove, I suppose) to crease another 3 1/8 hole within your field of vision for a nav indicator. I guess I misunderstood.
 
bid shader said:
My mistake, I thought you were somewhat tight on panel space. The 2x gi275 allows removal of all the legacy 6-pack instruments (or as many as you want to remove, I suppose) to crease another 3 1/8 hole within your field of vision for a nav indicator. I guess I misunderstood.
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No mistake at all my friend! I am tight on panel space but also tight on budget. With (2) G5's I can remove the vacuum system and the AI and DG. You're saying that with (2) 275's I can remove the entire 6 pack and go pretty much completely glass? With a 375 install?
 
Fredd Baber said:
Why wouldn't I use (2) G5's instead? They're slightly cheaper than the the GI 275 (about $1k each cheaper actually). (2) G5's and a 375 installation, IMHO, would be in the @25k range, which puts me over budget again.
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Wow! 2 G5s and a 375 for $25k. That seems high to me. I did one G5 and a GNC355 along with a 330ES for under $15k, although I already owned the 330ES so it was just install cost
 
jd21476 said:
Wow! 2 G5s and a 375 for $25k. That seems high to me. I did one G5 and a GNC355 along with a 330ES for under $15k, although I already owned the 330ES so it was just install cost
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I’m hoping it’s not that high. Waiting on a quote from the shop. The 375 will give me GPS and ADSB Out so that’s a double bonus. Hoping the loss of the vacuum system and AI and DG will bet me a few pounds of gross as well.
 
Fredd Baber said:
With (2) G5's I can remove the vacuum system and the AI and DG. You're saying that with (2) 275's I can remove the entire 6 pack and go pretty much completely glass? With a 375 install?
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With a pair G5's, you have to keep the airspeed indicator, altimeter and turn coordinator but you can connect the 375 to the G5 that is serving as a HSI.

With a pair of GI-275's, you can not only remove the 6-pack but you can also connect the KX155 to the HSI.
 
asicer said:
With a pair G5's, you have to keep the airspeed indicator, altimeter and turn coordinator but you can connect the 375 to the G5 that is serving as a HSI.

With a pair of GI-275's, you can not only remove the 6-pack but you can also connect the KX155 to the HSI.
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I did not know that. Question is, how funky would my panel look with just the two 275’s?! Lol!! Would look pretty bare!
 
Fredd Baber said:
Why wouldn't I use (2) G5's instead? They're slightly cheaper than the the GI 275 (about $1k each cheaper actually). (2) G5's and a 375 installation, IMHO, would be in the @25k range, which puts me over budget again.
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I would go with dual GI-275s. Then you can remove everything. What is your budget? Are you intending to enjoy the plane and get good use out of it or do you intend to flip it?
 
But first - do you have ADS-B OUT already? If so, here's cost-effective:
G5 as an HSI
GPS 175 using the G5 as indicator
All the parts needed for the GPS

This removes the existing DG, keeps your KX configuration and adds gps and HSI. Cost under $12,000 which includes installation, depending on the shop. Takes about 2-4 weeks depending how busy the shop is.

Yes, you must keep the vacuum system for the AI but you want cost-effective, right?

Next question - are you happy with the current transponder? If so, there are "add ons" to make it ADS-B OUT compliant. Much more cost-effective. Probably under $3000 and it includes installation.

Where are you located? A good, and I mean GOOD, avionics shop should be able to cut a new panel (not the plastic overlay) and re-route all the wiring, except that's going to cost. The 3 quality major shops in Colorado all offer custom panels. Another thought - have the panel you want cut and have the avionics shop re-arrange parts to match the panel. This will require the avionics shop and the custom shop to be in close communication to make sure everyone understands where all the parts need to go.

I've been doing upgrades for the past 3 years....the first was a new ADS-B OUT transponder - $5K in '18

In '19 the A&P installed the G5 AI (under $5K)

This year, avionics shop did the G5 HSI and GPA 175 - about $12K.

So yes, even low end will run about $25K overall. I just did it piecemeal so the pain to the checkbook wasn't as noticeable.
 
murphey said:
But first - do you have ADS-B OUT already? If so, here's cost-effective:
G5 as an HSI
GPS 175 using the G5 as indicator
All the parts needed for the GPS

This removes the existing DG, keeps your KX configuration and adds gps and HSI. Cost under $12,000 which includes installation, depending on the shop. Takes about 2-4 weeks depending how busy the shop is.

Yes, you must keep the vacuum system for the AI but you want cost-effective, right?

Next question - are you happy with the current transponder? If so, there are "add ons" to make it ADS-B OUT compliant. Much more cost-effective. Probably under $3000 and it includes installation.

Where are you located? A good, and I mean GOOD, avionics shop should be able to cut a new panel (not the plastic overlay) and re-route all the wiring, except that's going to cost. The 3 quality major shops in Colorado all offer custom panels. Another thought - have the panel you want cut and have the avionics shop re-arrange parts to match the panel. This will require the avionics shop and the custom shop to be in close communication to make sure everyone understands where all the parts need to go.

I've been doing upgrades for the past 3 years....the first was a new ADS-B OUT transponder - $5K in '18

In '19 the A&P installed the G5 AI (under $5K)

This year, avionics shop did the G5 HSI and GPA 175 - about $12K.

So yes, even low end will run about $25K overall. I just did it piecemeal so the pain to the checkbook wasn't as noticeable.
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Got the quotes back…they run between $17 and $23k. They run the gamut of a 275/355combo to a G5/dual G5 and 355/345 combo. Not sure what I’m going to do now.
 
I’m in the same boat with my Skipper. This is my first airplane and I knew avionics were expensive but had no idea installation was just as high. I can afford the electronics or the installation but not both… suckage
 
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