Unfortunately these people exist.

Aztec Driver

Line Up and Wait
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Elizabethtown, PA
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Bryon
I got an email from a fellow pilot, in which he counters a point I have for taking my wife on long flights, which she doesn't necessarily enjoy. Here is his quip. Tell me what you would think.

On a trip to Florida last year I took my laptop and we watched 2 movies on board.
It wasn’t until the 2nd movie that it dawned on me to plug the laptop into the intercom. Voila, great entertainment.
However it has to be dark. The laptop isn’t bright enough in daylight (unless you throw a coat over your head and the laptop. Decker and I did that recently on a trip to FL. Did it about over Myrtle Beach for about 5 minutes).

Doesn't that scare the crap out of you to know that there are pilots up there that aren't paying any attention at all?
 
Aztec Driver said:
Doesn't that scare the crap out of you to know that there are pilots up there that aren't paying any attention at all?

I guess I have had my run ins with pilots that are without a clue as to what is happening around them for a while. That is why I always keep my head on a swivel, Never listen to music when I fly only ATC, and I keep conversations to a minimum. Not only do you have to watch out for yourself your have to be vigilant to ensure the other guy doesn't ding you.
 
As a student pilot I am tryng to learn the "rights" from the "wrongs".

I certaily subscribe to the sterile cockpit methodology for takeoffs and landings. I also understand being attentive while flying...however I also want flying to be enjoyable and fun, not all "work", so why would I not want to have conversations with my passengers, or listen to music if plugged into a system that will automatically cut it off whenever it sends or receives communications?
 
I don't really see an issue with listening to music or talking with passengers as long as you keep your head outside the cockpit and look for traffic.

I've had one or two instances where I've gotten much closer to an airplane then I would generally prefer. When this happens I'd say you have a few seconds to react. All of us once and awhile have our heads in the cockpit more then we should. It seems that we get lucky and those rare instances where a collision is possible we happen to be looking outside the plane. Or perhaps we were looking inside the airplane, barely missed them, and didn't even notice.

All in all. You should be looking outside the airplane as much as you can.
 
tdager said:
As a student pilot I am tryng to learn the "rights" from the "wrongs".

I certaily subscribe to the sterile cockpit methodology for takeoffs and landings. I also understand being attentive while flying...however I also want flying to be enjoyable and fun, not all "work", so why would I not want to have conversations with my passengers, or listen to music if plugged into a system that will automatically cut it off whenever it sends or receives communications?
That's a good question, and there's no simple answer to it. It really depends on circumstances.

In hard IMC you need to stay focused, especially on approaches. You want a minimum of distractions. To a lesser extent that's true in the pattern, particularly on short final and in the flare. It's also true that as you become more experienced, your ability to multitask becomes greater. So what's "right" and what's "wrong" will change over time.

As somebody pointed out, under VFR conditions you better be looking for traffic all the time. Can you talk, listen to music etc. at the same time? Of course! Watch a movie? Hell, no :no:

Our new R44 will have a panel mounted AM/FM/CD. I expect that I will use it both when I'm alone and also on longer flights with PAX.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
...As somebody pointed out, under VFR conditions you better be looking for traffic all the time. Can you talk, listen to music etc. at the same time? Of course! Watch a movie? Hell, no :no:

Our new R44 will have a panel mounted AM/FM/CD. I expect that I will use it both when I'm alone and also on longer flights with PAX.

We have a law in IL that you can't have a TV screen in view of the driver in a car. Funny law. I haven't seen too many soccermommobiles, pimpmobiles, or megaSUVs with LCD screens hanging down or popping up and out ahead of the front seat. Just having the GPS display on the dash is distracting enough. I suppose they just use the cruise control for the mundane driving stuff.

I have only a few times had a long enough crusing leg that I actually ran out of things to do and ATC quieted down enough that I wanted some music. I'm going to try plugging the iPod in to the music jack on the intercom.
 
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mikea said:
I have only a few times had a long enough crusing leg that I actually ran out of things to do and ATC quieted down enough that I wanted some music. I'm going to try plugging the iPod in to the music jack on the intercom.
I'm biased, of course :D

Because I'm usually so low (500-700 AGL), it's rare that ATC even picks me up on radar, much less wants to talk to me. I will sometimes talk to Phily Approach if I'm under the 1200' shelf and am worried about busting it...
 
RotaryWingBob said:
That's a good question, and there's no simple answer to it. It really depends on circumstances.

In hard IMC you need to stay focused, especially on approaches. You want a minimum of distractions. To a lesser extent that's true in the pattern, particularly on short final and in the flare. It's also true that as you become more experienced, your ability to multitask becomes greater. So what's "right" and what's "wrong" will change over time.

As somebody pointed out, under VFR conditions you better be looking for traffic all the time. Can you talk, listen to music etc. at the same time? Of course! Watch a movie? Hell, no :no:

Our new R44 will have a panel mounted AM/FM/CD. I expect that I will use it both when I'm alone and also on longer flights with PAX.

It's quite true that we can often do both, listen to music and drive/fly but there is a sliding scale of increasing tunnel vision for the PIC in any of these extra activities. The dangerously comforting reality of the typical scarcity of serious air to air/terrain conflicts in most GA flying hours combined with a well documented physical deterioration in peripheral vision acuity of anyone that is multitasking, creates the type of danger and increasing risks that can sort of creep up on a pilot somewhat unexpectedly while they are being entertained at various levels.

For now, it is still a personal choice as to what level the PIC wishes to increase risk, but should always be cautiously considered in all phases of flight.
 
Aztec Driver said:
On a trip to Florida last year I took my laptop and we watched 2 movies on board.
I recall being on a tour of the PS Engineering factory a few years ago when they first came out with their DVD player -- and being told it could be made to interface with the King MFD. And this is a good thing?!?!?!?!
 
Well a portable DVD player is great for the pax - my daughter in particular loves watching Barbie/Little Bear/Bambi while flying. And music is fine for pilots and pax, though I kill the music for me when I commence the approach phase of the flight.

I don't think visual distractions such as movies or reading a book are appropriate for pilots - even when I'm flying on autopilot in the cruise phase, I still need to scan the screens and stay on top of the autoflight system's performance. I know I would get too engrossed in a movie or a book to do my pilot job effectively.

Besides, when it's VMC - watching the country go past is the best show there is!
 
For the yutz putting a coat over his head to watch tv instead of flying the plane, he should stay home or take a cattle car. That mentality has no absolutely business anywhere in the world except on the sofa at home. Bored kids in the backseat, fine, but the pilot? If I were sitting next to him, I'd be solo in about 0.2 seconds because I'd slap him clean throught he side of the plane without unlatching the door. If one is suicidal that's fine go for it, but that behavior actively threatens other uninvolved people which is completely unacceptable.

tdager said:
I certaily subscribe to the sterile cockpit methodology for takeoffs and landings. I also understand being attentive while flying...however I also want flying to be enjoyable and fun, not all "work", so why would I not want to have conversations with my passengers, or listen to music if plugged into a system that will automatically cut it off whenever it sends or receives communications?

How about approaching the have fun flying mentality from a completely different point of view? It's simple: Enjoy flying the plane. Nothing more, nothing less.

I grew up around airplanes literally from day one and the whole sterile cockpit/multitasking concept is a sick joke. We have never used it at all because it's completely unnecessary where I come from. If you think about it for a minute, the sterile cockpit idea is based on the fact that you'd rather be doing something else and flying the plane gets in the way of your prefered activity so you have to block out time for flying in order to not kill yourself. So-called multitasking is done just like a computer does it; Little pieces of one task are done at a time while forgetting all the other tasks then jumping to the next task in the sequence. If you don't believe multitasking is done that way, ask yourself why people run redlights without realizing it while yakking on the phone - the junk software forgot to jump back to task #1.

In the countless hours of flying alone and with family and friends, going flying has always been about flying. No videos, no stereo, no yakking about non flying stuff and it didn't matter if it was a half hour goofing around the local hills or on a 1000 mile XC. It isn't sterile cockpit nonsense. It is just what we do. No one I've been in a plane with has ever gotten bored from it and it's actually really fun being completely immersed in the flying experience at the time.

IMNSHO if you want to talk about who's doing what, what happened on last night's sitcom, listen to the stereo or watch tv, you can do that at home as a couch potato. If transportation is just an annoyance between point A and point B, flying airplanes is a really bad hobby to pick because flying is actually about the journey between those two points.

I'd go as far as saying if you dump the outside distractions (experimental prototype spacecraft aside) flying a simple a Cherokee 180 or CE150, something like 90% of the pilot induced ballups, missed preflight items and getting lost would go away even without the use of checklists and GPS/glass cockpits. I mean, seriously, how many actual things are there on the right wing of a Cherokee that you could possibly miss during preflight if you're paying attention at all? There's not a lot of pieces to it. (In my best Foghorn Leghorn voice: "Pay attention here son, this is important.")

..Just one crazy caveman aviator's opinion...

Signed,
Normal.
 
I always thought how great it would be to have music piped-in while flying (envisioned Copland while soaring over the badlands or somesuch), only to find out when I started flying a plane with music capability built in that it distracts me from the flying, which I enjoy most.

On longer trips, I could see its benefit, but for most- naw.

I have used a radio to pick up ball games a time or two, but that's still OK with the PS Engineering Soft Mute.

But whatever may be on, gets turned off in the terminal areas, no exception.
 
I find the G1000 panels on the newest rental to be distraction enough. "How do you pull those metars up? What's the screen doing now? D--N!" No music and definitely no DVD for me, thanks.

Jim G
 
smigaldi said:
I also want to know if the jacket over your head to watch the movie count as simulated instrument time?

Flight solely by reference to instruments... ;)

Actually there was a story of some friends of friends doing air-surveying out in Idaho. They figured out how to program the GPS, taped the sectionals over the windows, and watched a DVD.
 
There's the guy I see on the highway doing 80 with coffee in one hand, the cellphone and cigarette in the other and the daily newspaper spread out on the dash. It's people like him that scare the heck out of me.
Some people need to spend more time paying attention to the task at hand. They CAN NOT successfully multitask (ie: walk and chew gum!). As was said, it's the little distractions that will bite you one of these days.
 
silver-eagle said:
There's the guy I see on the highway doing 80 with coffee in one hand, the cellphone and cigarette in the other and the daily newspaper spread out on the dash. It's people like him that scare the heck out of me.
Some people need to spend more time paying attention to the task at hand. They CAN NOT successfully multitask (ie: walk and chew gum!). As was said, it's the little distractions that will bite you one of these days.

There is a traffic jam I am in every morning and there is one guy I see all the time doing exactly what you described albeit at low speed. In the 8 years I have made this commute I have seen him at the side of road exchanging info with someone he rear ended twice. Yet I know I will see him doing his morning routine tomorrow without a care or thought in the world.
 
When I used to commute up and down I-15 in SoCal, I used to see the same characters nearly every day. One guy played a trumpet, one guy drummed on the dash with drumsticks (using both hands), a number of folks reading the newspaper, but the one that really used to scare me was the woman who used to ride inches off my rear bumber, putting on her makeup using her rearview mirror... I was sooooo tempted to hit the brakes so many times....
 
Frank...I get what you are saying...and so far, trust me, I LOVE flying. Though at this stage of the game it is more work then pure fun. LOL

However I was just thinking of when I take a pax or two up and play "tour guide".

Without a doubt I plan on being aware of my surroundings and the aircraft...I guess what I was getting at is that I did not want to come across as some airline pilot who views his pax as "meatbags".

Damn sometimes it is hard to convey and idea or meaning on a message board.
 
It's bad enough that pilots are distracted by all the avionics... we don' need no stinkin' DVD.

I do listen to XM audio sometimes on long trips. It auto-mutes when squelch breaks (or more annoyingly, when I exhale too hard into the microphone). I do turn it off when entering approach airspace or when it is otherwise busy. If there is enough ATC traffic, you really don't get to listen much anyway...
 
That is really scary, in my opinion. It's also very much against the regs. What was he thinking? Worse, by publicizing it, he's probably influenced a few people who are saying "cool". These are the folks who are going to ruin it for the rest of us. I don't understand how people can be so stupid.

Bryon, I hope you called the guy on it. Part of the reason people do stupid things is everyone's too reluctant to call them on the stupid things they do. Peer pressure is worth a try.

Judy
 
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I listen to music while flying. I have a auto muter on my headset so I never miss calls. Problem is that when you sing along, you mute out the audio also. So you gotta just lip sync :D
 
you guys ever seen a pilot fly a G1000? Their eyes aren't outside at all either!
 
fgcason said:
For the yutz putting a coat over his head to watch tv instead of flying the plane, he should stay home or take a cattle car. .... There's not a lot of pieces to it. (In my best Foghorn Leghorn voice: "Pay attention here son, this is important.")

..Just one crazy caveman aviator's opinion...

Signed,
Normal.

Bravo! Well said!:yes:

And that being said, ditto to people who talk on &$3%6 cellphones (for non emergency purposes), fix hair, shave, and etc. whilst driving. I avoid at least five to eight driving accidents a WEEK with those idiots--now I have to deal with them in the air?
 
deafsound said:
you guys ever seen a pilot fly a G1000? Their eyes aren't outside at all either!

I got a GNS430 recently and I scared myself during the intense learning period when I've realized how much time I've spent with my head inside. I've had to really work at training myself to pause when programming it to look outside. I've gotten a LOT better as I've learned the thing, but even now I have to be vigilant. OTOH, now that I've gotten pretty familiar with it, it's not attracting my eye as much and become more part of a normal scan. But whew! Fortunately, most of the most intense learning period was with a CFI in the cockpit (I had to get current again), but I even caught him watching me a few times instead of watching outside. (Don't tell me about the simulators because I know about them. They don't work for me for several reasons: (a) I have a Mac, (b) I have dialup, and (c) simulators have never worked very well for me. They just aren't realistic enough and I end up not learning much.)

Judy
 
judypilot said:
I (Don't tell me about the simulators because I know about them. They don't work for me for several reasons: (a) I have a Mac, (b) I have dialup,

Well fix those two and.......


(c) simulators have never worked very well for me. They just aren't realistic enough and I end up not learning much.)

This one may come around. :)
 
Y'all are bringing up the main reasons why I have actively avoided flying by GPS. I haven't even so much as flown a GPS approach (on the sim I have, but I have avoided it in the real a/c). But this next year will be different. I still have my reservations about doing so....
 
As far as music to my ears while airborne, I must confess to almost constant listening while in flight to the Lycoming Quartet on almost every flight.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
As far as music to my ears while airborne, I must confess to almost constant listening while in flight to the Lycoming Quartet on almost every flight.

Don't forget the Pratt and Whitney duet. Music to my ears.
 
Richard said:
Y'all are bringing up the main reasons why I have actively avoided flying by GPS. I haven't even so much as flown a GPS approach (on the sim I have, but I have avoided it in the real a/c). But this next year will be different. I still have my reservations about doing so....

Mmmm GPS approaches. Practically cheating.
 
I have never flown with a GPS. I did fly a '62 C172 with a Loran a few times but never used it. VOR's and charts will usually work pretty well. Not that I have anything against GPS, just never had an occasion to fly an airplanes with one installed.
 
Richard said:
Y'all are bringing up the main reasons why I have actively avoided flying by GPS. I haven't even so much as flown a GPS approach (on the sim I have, but I have avoided it in the real a/c). But this next year will be different. I still have my reservations about doing so....
Yeah, but... There's lots of a/c in which a GPS is the only game in town, and this includes our R22 -- the choice is either GPS navigation or pilotage, because we don't have a nav radio. (I do both -- I enjoy helicopter "I Follow Roads" brand of IFR.)

Our R44 with have a 430 in it, but I suspect that at the altitudes we typically fly that we won't get VOR reception except very close to the VOR.

IMO, GPS works well, and will continue to once the FAA starts decomissioning VORS.
 
If you think GPS and/or radio is distracting, just try one of the new glass panels! Many of them even have XM Satellite radio, so you can have both simultaneously! It's REALLY hard to force yourself to look outside! And don't think the traffic alerting function is going to save your butt!
 
mikea said:
We have a law in IL that you can't have a TV screen in view of the driver in a car.

Heh... I watched "Tommy Boy" while I was driving a motor coach through Chicago.

Of course... It was more like "Being an occupant of the driver's seat." Is it really driving if you don't move? It took the entire movie to get from the Indiana state line to the Dan Ryan (skyway). Nothin' like holiday weekend traffic in Chicago.

Worst time was eight hours the day before Thanksgiving. :hairraise: Next time I go to the grandparents' for TG, I'm flying! :yes:
 
gprellwitz said:
If you think GPS and/or radio is distracting, just try one of the new glass panels! Many of them even have XM Satellite radio, so you can have both simultaneously! It's REALLY hard to force yourself to look outside! And don't think the traffic alerting function is going to save your butt!

At least it speaks "Traffic Unavailable" to wake you up once in a while. ;)
 
judypilot said:
(a) I have a Mac, (b) I have dialup, and (c) simulators have never worked very well for me. They just aren't realistic enough and I end up not learning much.)

Judy,

As for the Mac and dialup - Well, that's the one thing I use Virtual PC for, and you only have to download it once. Start the download before you go to bed and it'll be there for you the next day.

As for simulators, I'm with you. You can learn WAY more about the 430 on a good long cross country flight than on the simulator. Especially when the sim and the box in the plane are on different software revisions and don't necessarily behave the same!
 
judypilot said:
That is really scary, in my opinion. It's also very much against the regs. What was he thinking? Worse, by publicizing it, he's probably influenced a few people who are saying "cool". These are the folks who are going to ruin it for the rest of us. I don't understand how people can be so stupid.

Reminds me of a newspaper article a year or two ago where Lance Niebauer (Lancair/Columbia) was talking about the whizbang avionics in his planes and how they made flying so easy you could "literally read a book up there." :mad: Then they talked about a mom with two kids and a Columbia doing just that on their trips! :dunno: :mad: It's one thing for some random idiot to say those things (and yes it's bad) but it's entirely another for the head of a GA aircraft manufacturer to shoot us all in the foot like that. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Bryon, I hope you called the guy on it. Part of the reason people do stupid things is everyone's too reluctant to call them on the stupid things they do. Peer pressure is worth a try.

Yes! :yes: And if peer pressure doesn't work, it can be followed up with Aviation Safety Counselor pressure and then FSDO pressure.
 
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