It seems to me that we had a thread awhile back about entering the traffic pattern at uncontrolled fields. I cannot find it. Can someone send a link?
Get on the radio early, listen, and keep your eyes open. Another trick if not flying over congested area...get about 100-200' below TPA about 5 miles out and see if you can see anyone in the pattern. Easier to see them against the sky than the ground. Then climb back up to TPA and enter.
Good tip!!
Just don't be a roar into the pattern, then pull to idle type, if you like your engine and your money.
That's the problem (ok, maybe not a problem) with the Comanche...it doesn't slow down that well. I'm down to pattern speed about 1-2 miles out. Of course that pattern speed is still a few knots faster than a lot of fixed/fixed planes out there.
Always ask the magic words" Any traffic in the pattern, please advise!"
The P-Baron is pretty slick and heavier. I normally do a wider pattern at 120 knots which is just above blue line. I learned to use Approach flaps because they really help slow me. Just pulling the throttles back a couple miles out will eventually slow you, but many times I may still have to descend. Towered APs keep me high sometimes until I can enter downwind. Approach flaps really help in this case.
May want to try it on the A-36 sometime if you still have some speed you need to lose to get into the pattern: 10 to 15% flaps can make a measurable difference.
Only took me 5 years of flying Bos to use this on occasion. With the P, use 'em all the time.
Best,
Dave
Dave, in the A36 I used Approach flaps (usually) from the FAF on in. In the pattern, I was usually slow enough by downwind that I just gave it all flaps abeam the numbers.
Cannot believe I said "Uncontrolled" instead of "Untowered".It seems to me that we had a thread awhile back about entering the traffic pattern at uncontrolled fields. I cannot find it. Can someone send a link?
Cannot believe I said "Uncontrolled" instead of "Untowered".
However, there are too many times when the former is the case, too.
PS: Got an email with this link: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373&highlight=traffic+pattern&page=2
Any
Traffic
Threads
In
The
Archive
Please
Advise.
Trapper John
Just don't be a roar into the pattern, then pull to idle type, if you like your engine and your money.
Much of what I've read and experienced indicates that shock cooling is a myth...unless possibly if your CHT's run well over 400dF in cruise.
Most engines are shock cooled much more severely every time you shut them down than they will ever be when you reduce power and speed.
Taken to the extreme, training planes that remain in the pattern all day long are repeatedly shock cooled and their engines regularly go to TBO.
My CHT's run from 300 to 350 in cruise flight so I definitely don't worry about shock cooling (actually #6 is lucky to make it to 300dF)
YMMV
Much of what I've read and experienced indicates that shock cooling is a myth...unless possibly if your CHT's run well over 400dF in cruise.
Most engines are shock cooled much more severely every time you shut them down than they will ever be when you reduce power and speed.
Taken to the extreme, training planes that remain in the pattern all day long are repeatedly shock cooled and their engines regularly go to TBO.
My CHT's run from 300 to 350 in cruise flight so I definitely don't worry about shock cooling (actually #6 is lucky to make it to 300dF)
YMMV
How come we never hear about shock heating?
Trapper John
There's no question that the issue of "shock cooling" causing cracks in cylinders is a myth, because you need cooling rates of 1000's of degrees per second to achieve that, and even an idle chop only gets you about 100 degrees per minute. However, Lycoming is quite convinced that you can still slowly harm your engine by repeated power reductions causing cooling rates in excess of 60-80 deg/minute. They say (and I figure they have engineering data to support this -- Ted?) that the cylinder heads cool faster than the pistons, and as a result, contract faster. This tightens the cylinder on the piston rings during sharp power reductions, increasing wear rates on the cylinder walls and piston rings, which shortens time between overhauls.Much of what I've read and experienced indicates that shock cooling is a myth...unless possibly if your CHT's run well over 400dF in cruise.
Because "shock heating" is harder to achieve, doesn't cause cracks, and doesn't result in as uneven heating between piston and cylinder head.How come we never hear about shock heating?
Actually, we do....sort of.
The theory of when it's below 40dF outside and you start-up (and you don't preheat and your engine is relatively new and tight) the pistons heat faster than the cylinders (and more importantly expand faster than the cylinders), clearances between the piston and cylinder are reduced, the piston is "choked" and excessive wear occurs.
Another myth?
You decide! :smile:
Lycoming Service Instruction 1094D said:At all times, caution must be taken not to shock cool the cylinders. The maximum recommended temperature change should not exceed 50F per minute
It really depends on the airplane -- with a lot of the slower stuff -- you'd never get to the airport if you didn't carry a lot of power into and through a good chunk of the pattern.I can't tell you how many times I've been at the airport and heard WHAAAAAAAAAAAA, VrooooOOOM! as the hot shot goes from full throttle to idle in 3 seconds.
It really depends on the airplane -- with a lot of the slower stuff -- you'd never get to the airport if you didn't carry a lot of power into and through a good chunk of the pattern.
No reason to chop from full power to idle instantly -- it can be done smoothly -- but you sure can't do it over a few minutes like you can with a Bo.
Nice to hear Dan. Yea, on an instrument approach, I have gear and approach flaps in at the FAF like you, full flaps when I am visual and able to make the runway. I just use approach flaps more in the P-Baron just to slow it down. I've had a lot of folks tell me I just need to pull the throttles back, but once they fly with me they see the P just likes to keep on a goin
Best,
Dave
I have pistons in my cubicle that would indicate that no, that is not a myth. You'd be surprised how much damage you can do very quickly from that. I know better than to think that experience will confuse anybody who believes otherwise, though.
I always enjoy seeing an accomplished pilot smoothly fly; that, usually means deliberate, even control movements.
I have pistons in my cubicle that would indicate that no, that is not a myth. You'd be surprised how much damage you can do very quickly from that. I know better than to think that experience will confuse anybody who believes otherwise, though.
As to shock cooling, SI 1094D (Fuel Mixture Leaning Procedures), General Rules, Item 4:
http://www.lycoming.com/support/publications/service-instructions/pdfs/SI1094D.pdf
As a matter of fact, there are very few things in flying an airplane I can think of where gradual input isn't better than rapid changes
I fly a t/n a-36 that has the speed brakes (2 on each wing). What a great mod for that plane...talk about stop and drop, you can go from 180 to 140 in just a few seconds without even touching the throttle .The Beeches sure are slick heavy airframes that get trucking in a hurry downhill......On approaches/near pattern I also use flaps as well. I like to be at Vle around the FAF w/appr flaps ..20/2500 works great when being vectored.. gear down at one dot low and 17" when the glideslope hits the "doughut"
There's no question that the issue of "shock cooling" causing cracks in cylinders is a myth, because you need cooling rates of 1000's of degrees per second to achieve that, and even an idle chop only gets you about 100 degrees per minute. However, Lycoming is quite convinced that you can still slowly harm your engine by repeated power reductions causing cooling rates in excess of 60-80 deg/minute. They say (and I figure they have engineering data to support this -- Ted?) that the cylinder heads cool faster than the pistons, and as a result, contract faster. This tightens the cylinder on the piston rings during sharp power reductions, increasing wear rates on the cylinder walls and piston rings, which shortens time between overhauls.