Unconsciousness, Vertigo and Class 3

[Unregistered]

Hi everyone. I have a medical question that none of my local pilot friends can answer w/ any credibility. I crashed my motorcycle last year (October), and got beat-up a bit. I'm fine now, but I was knocked-out for a little while after the impact. I really don't remember the incident or the ambulance ride, but I was awoken at the hospital and I've been conscious ever since. I've already gotten a copy of the hospital records from that incident.

As the healing progressed and I was up-and-moving, I discovered that I had acquired vertigo. I was diagnosed and cured of that by the neurologist (Jan 2013). He said it was from my head being whacked against the pavement, and it was treated in 2 visits. I've just requested, but have not received, those documents.

My Q is, how are these going to affect my Class3 med, and how can I be best prepared to deal w/ these? Thanks for your assistance.

 

[AggieMike88]

There are some definite reporting requirements for this one. I don't recall the specifics, but a blow to the head that involves LOC is something the FAA is gonna want to know more about. So yeah, it is going to affect your Class 3 to some extent.

First, contact Dr. Bruce Chein directly, off of the forum, and contract with him directly to get the right guidance. You can find his contact info on www.aeromedicaldoc.com. Bruce will provide the list of items to obtain. Get these items.

I don't know if additional testing is required, but if Bruce advises get this testing, then it's what he has learned will make a case like yours go through the system with minimal friction.


Second, how good is your AME at being your advocate to the FAA? Is he or she willing to call for telephone approval once it's confirmed you presented as okay to issue and have all the right documentation in hand? Or is he/she going to stuff you into deferral hell?

If it is the former, good for you to find a good one. If it is the latter, then making the trip to Dr. Bruce's office in Peoria might be worth the trip. Lots of folks here have made such a trip when they have complicated situations and departed for home with their class 3 medical in hand to show for it.

Best of luck to you! Keep us in the loop as this progresses!

 

[DJTorrente]

How do you feel about the prospect of flying LSAs?

 

[poadeleted20]

How do you feel about the prospect of flying LSAs?

With vertigo attacks? You really think that would still fall within the category of allowing safe flying, even of an LSA? The mere facts that you have not failed an FAA medical and hold a drivers license do not by themselves make you legal to fly even LSA or ballon/glider if you know or have reason to know of a condition which would not allow you to safely act as PIC of that aircraft, and it would be hard to argue that one can do that despite vertigo attacks. If these attacks are ongoing, I believe this is going to take some serious evaluation even for non-medical certificate operations, maybe even preclude them. Of course, if they really have stopped, and the OP's doc is convinced they will not return, then that remains an option.

In any event, Bruce will have the best answers on the prospects for certification.

 

[JeffDG]

First, advice about Dr. B is spot on...he knows the system and what it takes to get through it.

On a lighter note...

but I was awoken at the hospital and I've been conscious ever since.

Lay off the damned caffeine!

 

[Unregistered]

Thankfully, the vertigo has not been felt since leaving the neurologist's office in January. I was tested repeatedly, and all confirmed I was "fixed".

Yea, I guess it's not exactly accurate to say I've been conscious for the last ~5500 hours. That might be a more-serious concern than the others, ha!

 

[bbchien]

Closed bonk to the head with unconsciousness lasting more than a few seconds is a huge deal and how huge depends on whether or not you had blood on your Brain CT/MRI and/or whether or not you had a seizure. So you need to get the documents- the First Responder assessment, and the neuro ICU charts as to when you became conscious. Establish the time interval exactly.

Any blood on the CT is 2 years down. Unconscious >24 hours is automatically 4 years not flying.

In the best case, if you have post concussive nothing and were down for < 1 hour you need a detailed neurologic exam. 1 hr or greater- that exam has to be a report from a neurologist.

If you had even a nondepressed skull fracture but had any blood in the MRI you you cannot be approved by the agency. The file has to go out to the external consultant.
If there has been any neurologic dysfunction you are talking neurocognitive eval ($$s) and you don't want to do that until everything else has passed.....

 

[DJTorrente]

Cap'n Ron,

You're right; maybe I was a bit glib.

But you're a CFII - don't you train instrument students/pilots to overcome nearly identical sensory mis-feedback analogous to vertigo all the time? (i.e., don't believe your senses in the soup; trust the instruments, etc.) The degree of affectation seems to matter -- is it constant and debilitating or mild, infrequent and merely annoying?

 

[DavidWhite]

We're you wearing a helmet on the motorcycle?

 

[poadeleted20]

Cap'n Ron,

You're right; maybe I was a bit glib.

But you're a CFII - don't you train instrument students/pilots to overcome nearly identical sensory mis-feedback analogous to vertigo all the time? (i.e., don't believe your senses in the soup; trust the instruments, etc.) The degree of affectation seems to matter -- is it constant and debilitating or mild, infrequent and merely annoying?

There is a big difference between the spinning feeling you get with vertigo where your eyes are seeing everything spinning and the case of spatial disorientation where your eyes just don't agree with your ears. You cannot process the visual information when you have a vertigo attack.

 

[denverpilot]

Perhaps the motorcycle riders on the board should carefully decide for themselves whether they can handle the mandatory downtimes mentioned by the Doc.

Helmeted even.

Years off flying for a good bump on the noggin, doesn't sound like it's worth riding much to me.

Yeah, I know it can happen in a cage, too... But the numbers lean away from it.

 

[AggieMike88]

I wonder if young DW is reading this thread?

 

[airheadpenguin]

Perhaps the motorcycle riders on the board should carefully decide for themselves whether they can handle the mandatory downtimes mentioned by the Doc.

Helmeted even.

Years off flying for a good bump on the noggin, doesn't sound like it's worth riding much to me.

Yeah, I know it can happen in a cage, too... But the numbers lean away from it.

You might ask the pilots on this board if the prospect of taking the rest of time off from life is worth it. You'd probably get very similar answers.

I don't plan on turning in my helmet or wings any time soon, and I don't expect the worst case outcome from them either. Will it happen? Sure, but what is there to do other than practice abnormal operations on both?

 

[W. Stewart]

There is a big difference between the spinning feeling you get with vertigo where your eyes are seeing everything spinning and the case of spatial disorientation where your eyes just don't agree with your ears. You cannot process the visual information when you have a vertigo attack.

I hate the fact that many call the latter condition "vertigo". Spatial disorientation is nothing like true medical vertigo. I wish there some way to purge the word "vertigo" from pilot lingo.

Wells

 

[bbchien]

I hate the fact that many call the latter condition "vertigo". Spatial disorientation is nothing like true medical vertigo. I wish there some way to purge the word "vertigo" from pilot lingo.

Wells

I just give up, Wells. EVERYONE's a doctor these days.

 

[bullwinkle]

But the internet told me...

 

[steingar]

Perhaps the motorcycle riders on the board should carefully decide for themselves whether they can handle the mandatory downtimes mentioned by the Doc.

Helmeted even.

Years off flying for a good bump on the noggin, doesn't sound like it's worth riding much to me.

Yeah, I know it can happen in a cage, too... But the numbers lean away from it.

Not going to hide under a rock just to protect my cert. I love flying, I really do. But I love lots of things. If I have to stop doing all those just to keep flying, I think it iwll be the flying that gets the axe.

My bank account would just LOVE that.

 

[SCCutler]

I just give up, Wells. EVERYONE's a doctor these days.

True enough, Doctor; I am a Doctor of Love!

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks for the replies, guys, and especially an honor to hear the skinny from Dr. Bruce. Boy, now I'm concerned... but i'm also better-informed. I'll work this week to dig-up those additional medical records and see where I stand. I'm sure the proof is ultimately in the paperwork, but I've been "strong like ox" since the first of the year. I've had no (apparent) physical or neurological issues. I think I'm about to have an emotional episode though, when i start to cry over loosing my medical (

Oh yes, I was wearing a helmet, an AGV flip-up/convertible. It's toast now, of course, but it did its job. Impact was just around and behind my ear (a few fractures of the skull), and I'm still having some slight hearing issues. Seems strange after an MC crash that the continuing problem is my hearing, ha! All the bones have healed-up as expected. For the MC fans that are tuned in, it was my old Ducati Paso that i high-sided onto the center line. Single-vehicle accident, btw.

Oh, the vertigo was BPPV, treated and cured in Jan. Those records arrived here today.

 

[AggieMike88]

Thanks for the replies, guys, and especially an honor to hear the skinny from Dr. Bruce. Boy, now I'm concerned... but i'm also better-informed. I'll work this week to dig-up those additional medical records and see where I stand. I'm sure the proof is ultimately in the paperwork, but I've been "strong like ox" since the first of the year. I've had no (apparent) physical or neurological issues. I think I'm about to have an emotional episode though, when i start to cry over loosing my medical (

Oh yes, I was wearing a helmet, an AGV flip-up/convertible. It's toast now, of course, but it did its job. Impact was just around and behind my ear (a few fractures of the skull), and I'm still having some slight hearing issues. Seems strange after an MC crash that the continuing problem is my hearing, ha! All the bones have healed-up as expected. For the MC fans that are tuned in, it was my old Ducati Paso that i high-sided onto the center line. Single-vehicle accident, btw.

Oh, the vertigo was BPPV, treated and cured in Jan. Those records arrived here today.

Just keep digging and working with Dr. Bruce. If keeping or regaining the certificate is possible, he's the right AME to help you make it happen.

Best of luck to ya!