Ummmm... HELP! (laptop boot trubble)

SCCutler

SCCutler

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Spike Cutler
Doggone if those computers never warn you of impending failure!

I went to boot up my always-faithful (until today) laptop, a Toshiba with XP Home SP2 (I think it's up to SP2 now...), and it gave me the message about missing or corrupt file-

"Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt:

\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM

You can attempt to repair this file by starting Windows Setup using the original Setup CD-ROM.
Select 'r' at the first screen to start repair."

I booted the Toshiba System Restore CD-ROM, which started with "Windows 98" (!), and gave me a warning that we were about to completely wipe the disk and start over. Not the desired effect.

So I then booted to a generic Win XP Home disk, and was able to get into the "recovery console," and it is clear that the hard drive is still operational, as I can browse the disk's directories.

So I suspect I may be able to manually do a restore-point. Or something?

Ideas / suggestions? (and no thanks, the Mac thing is not an immediate answer). :D
 
OK, here's how to remove your appendix..pardon teh typos....


Spike, wrap up your laptop and send it to RJM.
 
It would be best if you used the recovery CD that came with the laptop. You're recovery console should say something like:

C:\WINDOWS_

If this is correct, and you have the recovery CD in the CD tray do this:

CD D: (or what ever the drive letter for your CD tray)

D:\_

Now type this as it is written:

copy D:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM C: (there is a space after the M in system and the letter 'C')
It should say '1 file(s) copied'.

Type exit

Now reboot your computer, if that doesn't work, put your exact symptoms on the next msg and we'll try again.
 
docmirror said:
It would be best if you used the recovery CD that came with the laptop. You're recovery console should say something like:

C:\WINDOWS_

If this is correct, and you have the recovery CD in the CD tray do this:

CD D: (or what ever the drive letter for your CD tray)

D:\_

Now type this as it is written:

copy D:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM C: (there is a space after the M in system and the letter 'C')
It should say '1 file(s) copied'.

Type exit

Now reboot your computer, if that doesn't work, put your exact symptoms on the next msg and we'll try again.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, unless the file is literally named SYSTEM.
Try xcopy D:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\CONFIG\SYSTEM\*.* C: /s/e/h
and THAT risks copying older version of system files, meaning you're gonna put it in an unknown state re:patches and updates at minimum.
 
...well, first off, we're running a chkdsk to see what it shows...
 
The Registry is melted down. You can't fix it with a a simple copy and replace.

You could do a repair install if you had a compatible, genuine installation disk, but NOT from a ghosted restore disk.

You can try using a generic XP disk to get into the Recovery Console and run a CHKDSK /r . Will it work? Long shot. But maybe.

If you know someone with an ERD disk, they may be able to access System Restore from ERD and fix it that way.

You also could use the Recovery Console to access backup of the registry in the Windows\Repair directory, that was made during installation and does not reflect the registry as it was at the time of the crash. But it would, at least, get you up and running; and from there, you could access System Restore and (possibly) get the system up and running again. If you want to give it a shot, I'll send you instructions.

Or... you can salvage your data and do a reinstall.

You also can, if you want, mail it to me. No promises. But also no charge.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
The Registry is melted down. You can't fix it with a a simple copy and replace.
Click to expand...

I figured as much; in Windows, too many interdependencies for it to be a nice, simple copy and replace...

RJM62 said:
You could do a repair install if you had a compatible, genuine installation disk, but NOT from a ghosted restore disk.
Click to expand...

I have an XP Home OEM disk that was burned from an image, I used it ONLY to re-install on a licensed machine, authenticated with a valid system key; that worked, so why would it not work for a repair?

RJM62 said:
You can try using a generic XP disk to get into the Recovery Console and run a CHKDSK /r . Will it work? Long shot. But maybe.
Click to expand...

Up to 66%, maybe I get lucky?

RJM62 said:
If you know someone with an ERD disk, they may be able to access System Restore from ERD and fix it that way.
Click to expand...

I have an ERD disk around here somewhere... may be at the office. I may ask for help on that if I can find it...

RJM62 said:
You also could use the Recovery Console to access backup of the registry in the Windows\Repair directory, that was made during installation and does not reflect the registry as it was at the time of the crash. But it would, at least, get you up and running; and from there, you could access System Restore and (possibly) get the system up and running again. If you want to give it a shot, I'll send you instructions.
Click to expand...

My cousin told me that, one time very recently, an MS Tech Supp guy (in India, natch) walked him through manually doing a System Restore from the command line.

RJM62 said:
Or... you can salvage your data and do a reinstall.
Click to expand...

How and to what do I copy the data? Will it, having booted to the CD-ROM, allow me to burn CDs?

RJM62 said:
You also can, if you want, mail it to me. No promises. But also no charge. Rich
Click to expand...

Such a deal! I hope not to abuse in this way, but one never knows, do one?

Thanks for the advice, we'll see what we see...
 
Let's hope the CHKDSK works.

The procedure for fixing this from the recovery console (at least the one I usually use when the other methods fail) is like this:

First, back up the Documents and Settings directory and any other data you may have stashed in odd places. You will have to do this either by slaving the drive to a working machine or by booting to a "live" CD (Knoppix, Mepis, BartPE, etc.) and copying to an external drive via USB. (These are also the methods you would use to back up to do a reinstall.)

Next, boot into Recovery Console, log into your Windows installation, and run the following commands at the prompt (>). Don't type the ">" . Hit ENTER after every command.

>cd system32\

>ren config configold

>mkdir config

>cd config

>copy c:\windows\repair\system

[ Note: If other hives are missing or corrupted, you can also type:

>copy c:\windows\repair\software
>copy c:\windows\repair\sam
>copy c:\windows\repair\security
>copy c:windows\repair\default

I suggest you not copy the hives that aren't causing an error. ]

>exit

Now reboot the computer. It probably will run CHKDSK automatically.

Next, go into System Restore and restore to the most recent RP prior to the crash.

I know some techs who run System Restore from the Recovery Console. I haven't had great luck doing it that way, though. I have a link to the method somewhere... I'll see if I can find it.

< SERMON >

These kinds of events are why I keep telling people that two mandatory accessories for a new laptop are an identical hard drive in an external enclosure, and a copy of Casper. Clone the drive often and all you have to do is a swaperoo when this happens. Presto-chango, up and running.

< / SERMON >

Rich
 
Oh, and what I meant by not using a Ghosted restore disk was the kind that some manufacturers give you which is just an image of the hard disk as it was originally purchased, not an actual Windows installation disk. A copy of an actual Windows installation disk of the same type will work (though the activation might cause issues).

A Restore Disk might also work if you were able to extract that hive to something and copy it... but there are so many variables and interdependencies that I wouldn't try it unless it was for that particular machine -- and even then, only as a last resort.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
Okay, here's how to access System Restore from the Recovery Console. I haven't had spectacular luck using this method, but some techs swear by it.

http://searchwincomputing.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid68_gci1167895,00.html

Rich
Click to expand...

Rich:

Thou art the man.

This technique appeared fairly safe from a "do no harm" perspective (as long as I carefully audited my command strings before hitting, "enter"), and it appealed to my "at least I have a clue what I am doing here" gene, as well as my "I used to be able to fix computer problems at the lights-and-switches-bootstrap-loader" gene...

...so i tried it, and it worked like le dream.

Guess who's running out and buying a USB drive tomorrow?

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

Did I mention, Thanks!?

/s/ Spike (synonymous with "sheepish")
 
SCCutler said:
Rich:

Thou art the man.

This technique appeared fairly safe from a "do no harm" perspective (as long as I carefully audited my command strings before hitting, "enter"), and it appealed to my "at least I have a clue what I am doing here" gene, as well as my "I used to be able to fix computer problems at the lights-and-switches-bootstrap-loader" gene...

...so i tried it, and it worked like le dream.

Guess who's running out and buying a USB drive tomorrow?

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

Did I mention, Thanks!?

/s/ Spike (synonymous with "sheepish")
Click to expand...

Hey Spike, fantastic, and you're quite welcome. I always like happy endings. :)

If your registry melted down, it would be good to know why. Could be the HD is wearing out, could be some sort of hardware issue (hot chipset or cpu, etc.), driver issues, lotsa things. Or it could just be Windows. In any case, having the external for a backup is a must because it could happen again.

Just make sure that the external drive is at least as big as the current drive and has the same interface (PATA or SATA). Then clone frequently with Casper, which has pulled my butt out of more jams than I can remember.

Glad it worked out. Now I can go to bed happy.

All the best,

Rich
 
SCCutler said:
Guess who's running out and buying a USB drive tomorrow?
Click to expand...
Spike, I'm glad ya got it back up and data available. I lost mine a few years ago and learned so dang much during that episode.

I bought a Buffalo external drive. It's automated backup software is very easy to use and runs like a champ every morning at 4AM as set. It keeps an ongoing record until you start over. As much junk as I have on this machine, I have six months of daily backups stored on a 160gb external. Now, the 250s are out there for as little as $60-80.
 
RJM62 said:
< SERMON >

These kinds of events are why I keep telling people that two mandatory accessories for a new laptop are an identical hard drive in an external enclosure, and a copy of Casper. Clone the drive often and all you have to do is a swaperoo when this happens. Presto-chango, up and running.

< / SERMON >
Click to expand...

But... If you didn't catch the error right when it happened, couldn't you clone the error as well and still be stuck?

You're right though, that technique sure beats the crap out of having nothing...

I can't wait for Mac OS X 10.5, which will have a super-sweet, intuitive (of course) backup system called Time Machine: http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html
 
flyingcheesehead said:
But... If you didn't catch the error right when it happened, couldn't you clone the error as well and still be stuck?

You're right though, that technique sure beats the crap out of having nothing...

I can't wait for Mac OS X 10.5, which will have a super-sweet, intuitive (of course) backup system called Time Machine: http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/timemachine.html
Click to expand...
Rich, MikeA put me on to Acronis about three years ago. It has save my shirt numerous times. I think I now have five external HDs and the server has a pair of identical drives. Is Casper (?Unix OS on a CD?) that much better?
 
Post-mortem (post-infirmus?)- I believe that the corruption arose because the computer got hot. It had been left running while sitting on a sofa, and its cooling airflow from underneath was clearly inhibited.

Bullet dodged.

Again, for all of your help, thanks!
 
bbchien said:
Rich, MikeA put me on to Acronis about three years ago. It has save my shirt numerous times. I think I now have five external HDs and the server has a pair of identical drives. Is Casper (?Unix OS on a CD?) that much better?
Click to expand...

Doc, they're both good applications. The reason I personally like Casper and recommend it to my clients are (1) that it can make a bootable clone from within Windows on demand or on an automated schedule, and (B ), it allows for differential backups, so once the first clone is made, the subsequent clonings take only a few minutes. Only the data changed since the last clone is copied.

There's also no compression, so the clone is bootable. In the event of a HD failure or if Windows screws the pooch, you just swap the clone into the system as the primary, and boot up. (Acronis can make bootable clones as well, but I don't think from within Windows. I could be wrong.)

Casper's not a Unix disk. It runs under Windows. There is an optional recovery CD, but I haven't used it and don't know what it runs.

There are quite a few Linux distros that run "live" from the CD, like Knoppix, Mepis, Ubuntu Live, Puppy, and probably a dozen others. There also are a few live Windows CD's like ERD and BartPE. I use them all the time for data recovery and for persuading recalcitrant Windows systems, and they also can be used to copy a drive or partition. But for simple, routine backup by average users, I haven't found anything I like better than Casper.

Rich

EDIT: To be clear, the main advantages to Casper are ease of use and minimization of downtime. It's not a "perfect" backup solution. Both drives could be taken out by a power event, for example. Also, although Casper makes differential backups, only the most recent clone is ever available to you.

Ideally, I use Casper as part of a backup strategy that also includes other backup methods (mainly network backup over the Internet these days). But I also know that it's hard enough to get some clients to do any backup at all. For them, I tend to use Casper as a main backup solution because I can automate it, and the backup is bootable and doesn't require extraction to use if it's ever needed.

Rich
 
Last edited:
SCCutler said:
Post-mortem (post-infirmus?)- I believe that the corruption arose because the computer got hot. It had been left running while sitting on a sofa, and its cooling airflow from underneath was clearly inhibited.

Bullet dodged.

Again, for all of your help, thanks!
Click to expand...

Yep. Heat can do that. Hopefully it didn't do any physical damage.

Again, you're welcome.

Rich
 
OK. Crap. Bullet not dodged.

Having successfully restored the registry, the laptop was back in fine fettle, and I decided it was high-time to make some backups of important stuff.

So I popped in a CD-R and tried to burn the "My Documents" to CD- essentially, all that mattered on the laptop. CD-R drive does not recognize the CD blanks as writeable, for whatever reason (still reads fine).

So I decided that I'd go buy an external HD to copy stuff to, and I did that, brought it home today. Was fixing to start copying...

...and the HD made a little squeaking noise and went to sleep. Now she's deader 'n' dead. I can hear the motor that spins-up the platters making a pathetic little rrrrr-rrrrr for about a second at a time, but it never spins up.

So I am confident the data remains right where I left it, but the HD will not spin up.

Guess I need a recovery expert to repair the drive to the extent that it can be read-from to get the data off. Toshiba HDD2189 B.

Suggestions?

(I should have never talked about backing it up out loud).
 
Well that sux...

If the drive won't spin up, it might wind up being a clean room job, which can run into many $$$$. There are some things that can be tried first, but probably you should get it into professional hands from the start. The more you fart around with the drive, the more difficult recovery becomes.

I have a friend who does data recovery exclusively if you can't find anyone local.

Rich
 
Another great resource I use a lot is

www.filesanywhere.com .

Internet backup of critical documents is great because it protects you even in the event of a catastrophe like a fire or flood that destroys the local backup. It's also good because it creates a central repository of your data that can be accessed from anywhere. It can be securely uploaded, as well, if you use the included HandyBackup client and enable SFTP.

They have excellent support, as well. I highly recommend them.

Rich
 
Here's where I sent my sister several years ago when hers went south:

http://www.drivesavers.com/

They've been around for a looooooong time. As stated above, it ain't cheap... IIRC it was $900 to recover the data on her 6 gig drive. Makes most every backup system seem cheap!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Here's where I sent my sister several years ago when hers went south:

http://www.drivesavers.com/

They've been around for a looooooong time. As stated above, it ain't cheap... IIRC it was $900 to recover the data on her 6 gig drive. Makes most every backup system seem cheap!
Click to expand...

They're a good outfit. So are Ontrack, DTI, ADR, and a handful of others. But it's still good, if one is available, to deal with a local data recovery specialist. Many times, there are techniques short of cracking open the drive that can and should be tried first.

I refer most hardware-related data recovery jobs to a friend of mine who's your basic genius. He's one of those guys who you just know is brilliant the moment he walks into a room. Not that he's arrogant or anything. He's just one of those people who's able to do hex math in his head as easily as most people calculate a tip in a diner.

Stefan has a remarkable collection of tricks that he uses to coax recalcitrant hard drives into spinning up one last time. Most drives I send him never leave his possession. But he also has the good judgment to know when a drive has to be sent to the OEM-certified lab we use in Manhattan. The end result is much lower cost for the clients, in most cases, with a better than 99 percent success rate overall.

Rich
 
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