Ultralights and logging

[SkyHog]

Simple question - can I log PIC time as a pilot of an Ultralight?

 

[Skip Miller]

Simple question - can I log PIC time as a pilot of an Ultralight?

Nick, you can log anything you want, as long as it is correctly logged.

That having been said, what would the purpose of logging ultralight time be? If you have aspirations to fly for an airline, none of the ultralight time will count as far as they are concerned. So you should not put it in your log book, as it will look like you are trying to "pad" your log book to make your experience seem more impressive.

If I were you I would log it in a totally separate logbook. Problem solved.

-Skip

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Simple answer is "no" but I can't quote chapter and verse on it. I'm sure Ron will.

 

[poadeleted20]

Simple answer is "no" but I can't quote chapter and verse on it. I'm sure Ron will.

Chapter 14, Verse 61.1(b)(1)(iv) says you must have the "identification" of the aircraft, and ultralights, not being registered, have no such "identification," so there's no way to make a valid log entry for ultralight time. However, one might still argue that 61.51(e)(1)(ii) does not require that the "aircraft" be an FAA-licensed one, and "aircraft" is defined in 1.1 merely as "a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air," which an ultralight is. But here's what the FAA says about time in non-certified aircraft:

FAA Order 8700.1, Volume 2, Chapter 1, page 1-46 and 1-47, paragraph 9.B. states, in its entirety, that:


“B. Logging Time. Unless the vehicle is type certificated as an aircraft in a category listed in FAR § 61.5(b)(1) or as an experimental aircraft, or otherwise holds an airworthiness certificate, flight time acquired in such a vehicle may not be used to meet requirements of FAR Part 61 for a certificate or rating or to meet the recency of experience requirements.”

So even if you can log it, you can't use the time for anything. However, the FAA Flight Standards Service goes on to state as AFS policy that the above order...

“...means, in effect, in order for the flight time to be logable, the flight time must have been acquired in an aircraft that is identified as an aircraft category as listed in § 61.5(b)(1), and is:
(1) An aircraft of U.S. registry that has a civilian type designation and has a current standard, limited, or primary airworthiness certificate;

(2) An aircraft of U.S. registry that has a civilian type designation and has a current airworthiness certificate other than standard, limited, or primary;

(3) An aircraft of foreign registry that has a civilian type designation and is properly certificated by the country of registry; or

(4) A military aircraft under the direct operational control of an armed force of the United States.”



Now, based on the regs cited above, I'm not 100% sure you are flatly prohibited from putting such time in your logbook, but clearly it wouldn't serve any useful purpose, and it could cause an inspector to look more closely than you want at the rest of the book.

 

[MSmith]

Now, if it becomes a Light Sport Aircraft instead of an ultralight (the owner gets an N-number), then it should be loggable as long as you are endorsed for the type (if it's a plane - you're good. If it's a powered parachute, you need an endorsement).

 

[poadeleted20]

Now, if it becomes a Light Sport Aircraft instead of an ultralight (the owner gets an N-number), then it should be loggable as long as you are endorsed for the type (if it's a plane - you're good. If it's a powered parachute, you need an endorsement).

True Part 103 ultralights are not likely to be registered as LSA's. Also, time in them before they are so registered would not be creditable. But if they are so registered, then they are no longer "ultralights" under the FAR's, as they are out of Part 103 and are certified aircraft with appropriate category/class ratings, and then, as you say, any future time in them is loggable and creditable.

 

[Henning]

Simple question - can I log PIC time as a pilot of an Ultralight?

If it is being flown as an ultralight, i.e. not registered, then no, it is not loggable to the furtherace of any rating. If however it is being flown as an Experimental and has an N-number on the tail, then yes it is loggable. Many of the two seat versions are operated as such.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Simple question - can I log PIC time as a pilot of an Ultralight?

Not without an N # as the others have said, which makes me wonder about say, Cessnas registered in Canada or foriegn countries as qualifying for loggable time per FARs ?

 

[Henning]

Not without an N # as the others have said, which makes me wonder about say, Cessnas registered in Canada or foriegn countries as qualifying for loggable time per FARs ?

No sweat as long as it's properly registered somewhere, it's loggable in furtherance....

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

No sweat as long as it's properly registered somewhere, it's loggable in furtherance....

I'm trying to think like a lawyer though... "No N #"...

 

[gismo]

I'm trying to think like a lawyer though... "No N #"...

I doubt there's anything in the regs about "N#'s".

 

[poadeleted20]

I doubt there's anything in the regs about "N#'s".

There isn't -- the reg just says "identification," not N-number. So non-US-reg is OK, too, as long as you have the official ID marks (letters or numbers) from the nation of registry.