Ultralight...

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
I'm considering building an ultralight....any suggestions:

1. Gotta have an enclosed cockpit, at least in the front, to avoid getting birds in my face and to help me deal with my fear of heights.
2. Gotta be able to hold 260 pounds of sexy man beast.
3. Preferably metal, although I would be open to wood, but certainly no composite
4. Price should be cheap
5. Preferably in a kit, although if its easy enough, I'd do scratch build

Affordaplane is out because I'm not dumb. Ideas?
 
Nick:

They are out of business, but the Mini-max is (I think -- though never flown one) and great little airplane.
 
Or make some money so you don't have to fly around in those Geo's.

Jim Logajan said:
Not too many ultralight designs will meet all your requirements; one of these might:

CGS Hawk Ultra: http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm
Legal Eagle Ultralight: http://www.betterhalfvw.com/
Gull 2000: http://www.thundergull.com/
Sport Parasol: http://www.loehle.com/SportParasolKit.htm
Preceptor N-3 Pup: http://www.preceptoraircraft.com/n3pup.html

Lose some of that sexy mass and a few more possible designs would be contenders.
Click to expand...
 
Shane (Otis Air) was flying around on one of those powered parachute thingies. He's got a couple threads about it here. Looked like fun, even when he almost banged into those cars.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not too many ultralight designs will meet all your requirements; one of these might:

CGS Hawk Ultra: http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm
Legal Eagle Ultralight: http://www.betterhalfvw.com/
Gull 2000: http://www.thundergull.com/
Sport Parasol: http://www.loehle.com/SportParasolKit.htm
Preceptor N-3 Pup: http://www.preceptoraircraft.com/n3pup.html

Lose some of that sexy mass and a few more possible designs would be contenders.
Click to expand...

Or, if he spends more time building and less time maintaining the sexy mass, maybe the remaining sexy mass would be even MORE sexy. :rofl:
 
Does anyone know much about the N3 Pup? There's one locally that may be for sale. Looks like a fun little plane.

Ryan
 
Jim Logajan said:
Not too many ultralight designs will meet all your requirements; one of these might:

CGS Hawk Ultra: http://www.cgsaviation.com/hawkultra.htm
Legal Eagle Ultralight: http://www.betterhalfvw.com/
Gull 2000: http://www.thundergull.com/
Sport Parasol: http://www.loehle.com/SportParasolKit.htm
Preceptor N-3 Pup: http://www.preceptoraircraft.com/n3pup.html

Lose some of that sexy mass and a few more possible designs would be contenders.
Click to expand...

One might be better off slipping just a little into the LSA range: Kitfox, Avid Flyer, etc.

(Note: The Preceptor is a nice design, and the company alleges that it is still in buisness, but there does not appear to be any evidence that they have actually delivered any kits in the last couple years... :mad: )
 
Eipper GT400, or if you want to take your wife, the GT500 and you can fly it under SP rules.
 
Nick,

I don't know all of the factors that have gone into your desire to go ultralight.

In my experience most people try UL not because they want to fly a minimalist aircraft, but because they are avoiding training, have exam anxiety, worried about a medical, the cost of flying, are to impatient to go through formal training or some combination.

Most of these people don't know about the limitations these aircraft have for flying in wind, range, weight capacity and use restrictions.

I have to agree with the advise of the last 2 posters, you will be better off going sport pilot.

I wrote an article that argues that is is more work to legally and safely fly a UL than an LSA.
 
His is really spanky. I imagine its a bit hard to use in the wintertime, but a really neat thing.
 
barnstorm said:
Nick,

I don't know all of the factors that have gone into your desire to go ultralight.

In my experience most people try UL not because they want to fly a minimalist aircraft, but because they are avoiding training, have exam anxiety, worried about a medical, the cost of flying, are to impatient to go through formal training or some combination.

Most of these people don't know about the limitations these aircraft have for flying in wind, range, weight capacity and use restrictions.

I have to agree with the advise of the last 2 posters, you will be better off going sport pilot.

I wrote an article that argues that is is more work to legally and safely fly a UL than an LSA.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind I have my PPL, have been flying for 6 years or so, and fly quite regularly in airplanes.

I want an ultralight because I live in a rural area, and I want to just fly around sometimes for fun, without spending a bunch of money to do so. An ultralight would allow me to just fly around our house and neighborhood, maybe down to the next town or so, and not make me have to drive all the way to the airport to do so.

Also - at $130/hr for an airplane, I think an Ultralight will be a lot cheaper in the long run for this type of flying. And a hell of a lot more fun for low and slow stuff.
 
I will be watching this thread with interest as I too have been kicking around the UL, fat-UL/LSA idea since I sold my plane.
 
SkyHog said:
Also - at $130/hr for an airplane, I think an Ultralight will be a lot cheaper in the long run for this type of flying. And a hell of a lot more fun for low and slow stuff.
Click to expand...

For about what you'll spend for an ultralight, you can have a A-65 powered Champ, Chief, or T-craft -- maybe even a Luscombe (but those are high dollar for some reason :rolleyes:)

You'll fly plenty low and slow, develop your finer aviator skills, and spend a whole lot less $$ -- especially if you can find an A&P that will let you work on your own bird.

:thumbsup:
 
SkyHog said:
Keep in mind I have my PPL, have been flying for 6 years or so, and fly quite regularly in airplanes.

I want an ultralight because I live in a rural area, and I want to just fly around sometimes for fun, without spending a bunch of money to do so. An ultralight would allow me to just fly around our house and neighborhood, maybe down to the next town or so, and not make me have to drive all the way to the airport to do so.

Also - at $130/hr for an airplane, I think an Ultralight will be a lot cheaper in the long run for this type of flying. And a hell of a lot more fun for low and slow stuff.
Click to expand...

Gotcha!

So you can already operate as a Sport Pilot fixed wing and could easily get a Sport Pilot add on for another cat/class. That is great!

True, a UL will allow you to do that. HOWEVER, please take in to consideration the weather. I don't know what the weather is like were you live but around here we have not had a weekend suitable for UL flying in months.

ULs that are Fixed Wings (not gyros) tend to be highly sensitive to wind and thermals. All but one of the many UL pilots I know only fly at dusk and dawn to avoid winds and thermals.

This cuts down flying time a great deal unless you don't have to work for a living or you live someplace that has great low-wind, low-thermal weather most of the year.

I had a real eye opener once when I was flying my UL (top airspeed 50mph) and the winds started out at 10mph and an UNFORCASTED wind change brought them to 25mph AWAY from the airport. I was 1/2 into my flight so I now had a groundspeed back to the airport of about 25mph. I had to be ready to put it down for the last half of the way back because of the worry of fuel starvation. If I slowed down to save fuel I would go to zero ground speed!

Many ULs like PPC/PPGs have top speeds of 25-35mph.

dmccormack said:
For about what you'll spend for an ultralight, you can have a A-65 powered Champ, Chief, or T-craft -- maybe even a Luscombe (but those are high dollar for some reason :rolleyes:)

You'll fly plenty low and slow, develop your finer aviator skills, and spend a whole lot less $$ -- especially if you can find an A&P that will let you work on your own bird.

:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Fantastic Advice!!

After allowing me to HELP with repairs and annuals by A&P came to trust my mechanical skills. Helping reduced the cost of the work done because it saved time.

A&Ps have the option to approve work they SUPERVISE. So now I can do minor work and using video conferencing software, digital photos and my speaker phone option of my cell phone under his supervision and he approves the work.

This not only saves me a bundle of $$ but also allows me to understand my aircraft better, fly safer, consult him before things become an 'issue' and he gets to know my aircraft better as well.

.
 
SkyHog said:
Keep in mind I have my PPL, have been flying for 6 years or so, and fly quite regularly in airplanes.

I want an ultralight because I live in a rural area, and I want to just fly around sometimes for fun, without spending a bunch of money to do so. An ultralight would allow me to just fly around our house and neighborhood, maybe down to the next town or so, and not make me have to drive all the way to the airport to do so.

Also - at $130/hr for an airplane, I think an Ultralight will be a lot cheaper in the long run for this type of flying. And a hell of a lot more fun for low and slow stuff.
Click to expand...

The LSA option would tend to drive one more towards operating off an airport - but I can get in and out of 900 feet or so pretty easy with my LSA (assuming minimal obstructions). How big is your back yard?

The Avid Flyer / Kitfox (originally an Avid Flyer clone) / Preceptor have a real nice wing fold setup if you want to keep it at home.

Experimental - Amateur Built can help a lot with some maintenance costs - but not all. I assume you are likely to end up behind (or in front of) a Rotax or similar - a stupid (Rotax brand) stainless exhaust system just set me back nearly 1K - I'll get it welded up this weekend. On the other hand, my fuel sending unit came from Advance Auto Parts and the coolant overflow bottle is from J.C.Whitney. But you knew that, eh?

My big cost is the hangar.

Friends don't let friends fly two stroke aircraft.

When the end blew off my muffler it got loud. When the end blew off a muffler on a 2 stroke Rotax my brother was riding behind, it quit.

Big fat turf tires are nice to have when you have to put it in a field.

Sit in one before you buy anything. You may be unpleasantly surprised.
 
dmccormack said:
For about what you'll spend for an ultralight, you can have a A-65 powered Champ, Chief, or T-craft -- maybe even a Luscombe (but those are high dollar for some reason :rolleyes:)

You'll fly plenty low and slow, develop your finer aviator skills, and spend a whole lot less $$ -- especially if you can find an A&P that will let you work on your own bird.

:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I've found a few ultralights selling for <$5K. If you can point me in the direction of a Champ, Chief, T-Craft, or a Luscombe for that price, I'm interested.
 
SkyHog said:
I've found a few ultralights selling for <$5K. If you can point me in the direction of a Champ, Chief, T-Craft, or a Luscombe for that price, I'm interested.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with ultralights, just respect their limitations and they are great fun. If you're buying used, the standard caveats apply. Look at the condition of all the structural hardware,make sure bolt holes aren't elongated and fasteners aren't worn, cable ends are in good condition....

I always recommend Eipper products. From the very beginning they made top shelf stuff and have been in business since the 70s IIRC. You don't stay in business in a small market that long by selling crap. I had the original Quicksilver and used to fly an MX-II on amphibs, both we great, well designed and a lot of fun. They make the GT-400 and GT-500 which are encloseable.
 
SkyHog said:
I've found a few ultralights selling for <$5K. If you can point me in the direction of a Champ, Chief, T-Craft, or a Luscombe for that price, I'm interested.
Click to expand...

Dunno about ultralight prices. Two place LSA's with 4 stroke engines are pretty hard to find for under $20K. Bottom end single place gets you down into the $10K range last I looked.
 
dmccormack said:
Sure, but they'll be in the same un-airworthy condition.
Click to expand...

That has been my experience also.

Every $5K (except one which I promptly purchased) aircraft I have ever gone to see has needed going through and typically recovering or a great deal of inspection or work.

Good single place F.W's and gyros can be had in the 8-12K range if you are patient and willing to travel to acquire them.

.
 
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