Ultralight Part 103

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evapilotaz

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Drone airspace abuser
I really like solo flying. I really like just local sight seeing and just enjoying the scenery. I have discovered this after I got current again. I do however enjoy sharing my flights with Passengers. I'm not interested in cross country flights over 150 miles. Solo Flying is what I like most. So why should I fly C172's with 3 seats empty a lot of times and pay the rental fees.

What I like to do is fly Ultralight 103 solo and rent when I have passengers.

http://www.usppa.org/Resources/FARs/part103_far.htm

What is the deal with Ultra flight flying. It seems to be dead or nearly dead. Did a lot of the Ultra Light manufactures caved in and no longer offer true part 103 ultralights. Everything is now LSA or what? I don't mind LSA or even ELSA airplanes. There are some nice ones out there.

What about Training in a ultralight? It seems to not exist.
 
Much of the community was operating illegally. Nearly every use of the "training exemption" was an abuse. The FAA pulled the exemption and gave a limited window for people to convert to Light Sport. LSA sucked what little life existed in UL which had been declining anyhow.
 
There is 'ultralight' training in similar LSA legal aircraft. Handful of the old fat ultralight two seaters have been through the LSA process as well as the large wheeled powered parachutes and weight shift trikes. Footlaunch powered paragliders being the exception(unless you want to leave the country.) Not really a problem because if you want to fly footlaunch PPG you need to be a competent paraglider pilot, it is 99.9% wing handling skills on the ground and a bit of landing(really easy with most wings.) http://ushpa.aero/ for PG training.
 
Just get into gliders, way less sketchy.

Ultralights, I've trained a few folks who flew ultralights every one of then had a couple engine failures.
 
James331 said:
Just get into gliders, way less sketchy.

Ultralights, I've trained a few folks who flew ultralights every one of then had a couple engine failures.
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From what I understand, years ago the culprit was usually those pesky 2 stroke engines. They weren't exactly dependable. Are they any better nowadays?

Motorgliders seem like the perfect compromise. The Sonex Xenos is pretty impressive and cost effective.
 
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As LSA rules came in, existing two seat "ultralike" aircraft had to be registered as LSA. Those that didn't meet the deadline cannot be flown. Many of those that did get registered are homebuilt and cannot be used for training. (Exceptions exist but only if the student owns the plane, but if he owns the plane he doesn't need UL instruction) CFI want to do training in certified aircraft that do not emulate the flight characterises of ultralights.

It is difficult to get ultralight training.
 
I like the single place Kold airplanes with foldable wings. Do they still make those? Does anyone else make something transportable like that. It doesn't have to be a ultralight. I have nothing against Elsa.
 
http://culverprops.com/back-yard-ul.php

This has about the most reliable small engine you can find on a UL plane. It's made up from a V twin generator engine modified for aircraft. The Backyard flyer also will swing the wings and fit on a long trailer or in a garage. It's my favorite of the UL planes.

Not many people want to mess with UL planes anymore. Most of all are two seat light sport because that's the way the FAA went.
 
Kolbs are very much alive and popular. I always liked the design of them. This was me flying my old one a couple years ago...it was the Firestar II. If you pay attention and do things correctly they aren't as dangerous as they are made out to be.

1_332.jpg
 
I meant all ultralight / rotax powered / light sport type aircraft. Kolbs have a fairly good record.
 
docmirror said:
http://culverprops.com/back-yard-ul.php

This has about the most reliable small engine you can find on a UL plane. It's made up from a V twin generator engine modified for aircraft. The Backyard flyer also will swing the wings and fit on a long trailer or in a garage. It's my favorite of the UL planes.

Not many people want to mess with UL planes anymore. Most of all are two seat light sport because that's the way the FAA went.
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Especially when the backyard flyer is priced at about $20,000. But it is a super-well made airplane.
 
The biggest problem I have with legal ultralights is that affordable ultralights are extremely limited in performance. Range is typically 40 miles, speed is about 50 mph, payload is 200 lbs on a good day. Most have bad wind and crosswind limits (if it 7 knots, you don't fly). But the worst for me is poor altitude performance, which basically excludes all of New Mexico and half of Colorado. Utah? Now you're kidding.

I am a member of local ultralight association and we do not have a single Part 103 ultralight left among the members. It's all EX-AB and E-LSAs. Some miss the limits by a little. Out treasurer has a Challenger single-seater with a Rotax 503, which, I think, is something like 270 lbs empty. But it's a necessity around here. A legal ultralight simply cannot take off in the summer at all.

In lowland states with mild weather ultralights continue to thrive to an extent. Florida has a ton on them. Another ultralight heaven is Missouri, because they have stupid taxes and ultralights aren't registered by feds.

As far as Chandler goes, I think it's borderline. It's too hot in the summer.

If I lived somewhere below 1000 ft, I'd look at a legal ultralight seriously. There's only a small number of designs that are worth considering, IMHO, especially buying new.

#1. Aerolite 103 - can't go wrong with that, the company is well settled after the 2012 sale. A proven design and I heard quality is good. $20k with the chute (a must, I think). They are selling more than anyone, or about 10 to 20 a year.

#2. Belite - the BMW of ultralights. Very large variety of prices, the higher end goes beyond $50k, but you can get a cheap one for about $23k with chute. Jim runs a good business.

#3. BYF - I know some people hate it, some love it. The wait time is long, but it's cheap. The 4-stroke engine standard! Controls require getting used to (straight tailwheel with no springs, unique brakes). I am leaning into "love" camp, but don't buy it you aren't a hot tailwheel pilot with time in strictier ships like Pitts.

#4. Kolb - The company was around forever. Usually make kits, but they promised to build read-to-fly Firefly in 2013. I didn't check if they delivered. Their website is habitually obsolete.

I used to have the Kolb at the top of the list. However, after one of our members had a weld pop on rudder horn, I'm not so sure anymore. Also, the previous owner of my Carlson had a Kolb before it. He said it wasn't flying too well, control forces were heavy.

Note, however, the Kolb always folds, and it takes much less space that other designs when folded. The length is only 19 ft. Thanks to folding tail you can tow it on an small open trailer. Everything else requires a half-ton pickup to tow. BYF needs a 27ft V-nose trailer!
 
I see tinerj had his post about supposed Kolb sale deleted. I suspect he meant Hawk (former CGS), not Kolb. Danny tried to get rid of the company before, but it didn't work out. So he's liquidating it now.

Hawk is a very nice ultralight, but without parts support you are one prang away from being grounded, which is a problem. Also, it's a bit overgrown, difficult to configure for legal weight.
 
docmirror said:
http://culverprops.com/back-yard-ul.php

This has about the most reliable small engine you can find on a UL plane. It's made up from a V twin generator engine modified for aircraft. The Backyard flyer also will swing the wings and fit on a long trailer or in a garage. It's my favorite of the UL planes.

Not many people want to mess with UL planes anymore. Most of all are two seat light sport because that's the way the FAA went.
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I would buy one for half that price. I guess maintenance is cheaper, but this is priced too close to the ballpark of a real airplane.
 
I think the price for a new UL are all around $20k or a bit more. Kits can be had for half that, but you gotta do some wrenching.
 
Thanks for the comments. I also thought about going the 1 or 2 place Power Parachute route. I'm not sure if I would like that type of flying. I kind of what something that has conventional 3 Axis Controls and can handle some wind.
 
docmirror said:
I think the price for a new UL are all around $20k or a bit more. Kits can be had for half that, but you gotta do some wrenching.
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It's only the cheapest ones. As I already mentioned, Belite easily tops $50k once you start adding 4-stroke engines and carbon struts. Ditto when you try to buy performance. Look how much a Sparrohawk is, but hold onto your chair.
 
zaitcev said:
You need a gyroplane then.
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Those seems to be dangerous. If something happens to the rotor you kiss the ground. I guess it holds to for any rotor aircraft.

If I'm flying it has to have wings and a Tail. :yes:

Powered Parachute on the other hand are very transportable and can be stored in my Garage. The draw backs are limited flying window because of Winds or Weather.
 
Powered parachutes are super fun. Weather limited, but all the light stuff is. They win for ease of use. If you are going to fly planes as well powered parachutes are a good choice.
 
Greetings everyone - my first post on the board.

Can anyone here demystify the operating restrictions on ULs? Can they be flown in Class E or not? The "prior permission" stuff seems vague, after all you can't fly a certificated airplane into, for example, a class D airspace without prior permission (i.e. 2-way comm).

I was a Sport Pilot for a few years (mostly flew C162) and recently got my PP. I have never actually seen an 103 UL, but I'm still interested in learning more due to the apparent simplicity, cost and potential to experiment.

Also, since ULs don't have an N number, I understand the time doesn't count towards ratings - is this correct?
 
Keep in mind that one of the FAA's major goals with the LSA/Sport Pilot rules was to make 2-seat ultralights completely illegal, including eliminating training as an excuse for using one. They really, really wanted all training with two aboard to be in some sort of certified aircraft as an issue of consumer protection.
 
Ron Levy said:
Keep in mind that one of the FAA's major goals with the LSA/Sport Pilot rules was to make 2-seat ultralights completely illegal, including eliminating training as an excuse for using one. They really, really wanted all training with two aboard to be in some sort of certified aircraft as an issue of consumer protection.
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Yea that killed the sport of 2 place Powered parachutes in my area when that happened. I use to go watch them fly and all of a sudden they were gone. A lot of Power parachute manufactures gone as well.
 
Midwest_Wings said:
Greetings everyone - my first post on the board.
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Welcome aboard! Hope you find the information here useful and the people here friendly.

Can anyone here demystify the operating restrictions on ULs? Can they be flown in Class E or not? The "prior permission" stuff seems vague, after all you can't fly a certificated airplane into, for example, a class D airspace without prior permission (i.e. 2-way comm).
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Is this the rule about which you are confused?
Sec. 103.17

Operations in certain airspace.

No person may operate an ultralight vehicle within Class A, Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from the ATC facility having jurisdiction over that airspace.
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What it's saying is you can't operate ultralights inside the magenta dashed lines around airports like York PA (KTHV) or in the magenta dashed line extensions to the D-space around airports like Salisbury MD (KSBY). This keeps them out of the way of commercially-operated aircraft flying instrument approaches.

As regards the "prior permission" and 2-way comms issues for those other airspaces, what they're talking about is the approval to enter Class B/C/D airspace without a working 2-way comm radio. Generally speaking, you have to call the ATC facility on the phone ahead of time to obtain permission to operate in their airspace without a radio. This is different than just calling in on the radio before entering the airspace. Thus, you can't fly a UL into those areas or Class E-to-the-surface areas without talking to the ATC facility controlling that airspace ahead of time to obtain permission to do so as opposed to just calling on the radio when you get there.

Also, since ULs don't have an N number, I understand the time doesn't count towards ratings - is this correct?
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At this point, yes, it is correct. The limited approval to use UL time towards FAA certificates/ratings expired in 2012.
 
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Ron Levy said:
What it's saying is you can't operate ultralights inside the magenta dashed lines around airports like York PA (KTHV) or in the magenta dashed line extensions to the D-space around airports like Salisbury MD (KSBY). This keeps them out of the way of commercially-operated aircraft flying instrument approaches.
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What about over them? It says 'lateral boundary', but that would presume that the magenta dashed line is in effect from surface to space, but that isn't the case. I would presume that one can fly over them, but the reg doesn't say that.
 
docmirror said:
What about over them? It says 'lateral boundary', but that would presume that the magenta dashed line is in effect from surface to space, but that isn't the case. I would presume that one can fly over them, but the reg doesn't say that.
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Since Class E surface airspace goes all the way up to the base of any overlying A/B/C space (and there's always A-space starting at 18,000 MSL even if there's no intervening B/C space), there really isn't any "over" area in which to operate an ultralight above such surface-based E-space.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since Class E surface airspace goes all the way up to the base of any overlying A/B/C space (and there's always A-space starting at 18,000 MSL even if there's no intervening B/C space), there really isn't any "over" area in which to operate an ultralight above such surface-based E-space.
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Well, that truly does suck. in the case of Salsbury the D ends at 2500', but the lateral boundaries for the purposes of pt 103 go all the way to class A. Can't go in, can't go over, gotta go around. Sucks.
 
docmirror said:
Well, that truly does suck. in the case of Salsbury the D ends at 2500', but the lateral boundaries for the purposes of pt 103 go all the way to class A. Can't go in, can't go over, gotta go around. Sucks.
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You certainly can go in, and I know someone who does so regularly -- in fact, his ultralight is based there right next to his Luscombe. He just talked to the Tower Chief and got that necessary prior permission, and uses a hand-held to talk to them flying in and out of the airspace. ;)
 
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