UK PPL with FAA IFR rating got confused in the clouds and pulled the chute

BobThePilot

BobThePilot

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Interesting accident report being discussed on another board.

So flying the N registered plane enabled him to use his FAA IR in the UK? Doesn't reflect well on the FAA rating that he couldn't seem to manage to fly level in the clouds without an AP and also didn't seem to understand how to use his AP anyway.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Cirrus SR22, N936CT 12-13.pdf
 
Ah. A GA example of Asiana. Pilot unable to hand fly the aircraft.
Pulling the chute was the correct move for an incompetent.

Burnishes the Cirrus brand, for sure.
 
Crashes are typically due to the pilot, at least in part.

No matter how badly he messed up the approach, no matter how much blame he might deserve for getting into that situation, he could survive. Because he used the chute appropriately.

Messing up isn't a great thing, but it happens.

Surviving is a great thing.
 
Pilot error....seems silly to blame the machine.
 
bbchien said:
Ah. A GA example of Asiana. Pilot unable to hand fly the aircraft.
Pulling the chute was the correct move for an incompetent.

Burnishes the Cirrus brand, for sure.
Click to expand...

Not only "unable to hand fly," it was "unable to autopilot fly" the aircraft as well.
Ya need to be able to do both if you're going to fly with the autopilot at all.

This has more in common with the Eastern 401 or Aeroflot 593 than Asiana. He didn't even begin to try to hand fly the thing until he was already out of control.
 
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I agree with others that his airmanship was atrocious, but showed satisfactory aeronautical decision making by pulling the chute. He was disoriented and out of control; it appeared that delaying the chute wasn't going to help things in his case.

That said, it was an incredibly avoidable situation on many fronts. Clearly he was in need or more than just BRS training. It doesn't surprise me though--it amazes me how few pilots really understand their A/P systems, their modes, their failure processes, etc. On another thread a fellow mentioned that he refuses to us an A/P in the planes he rents. I don't think he's alone. I too have have had those "huh?" moments where the A/P just didn't seem to do what I expected. Of course, it was a training issue. It doesn't hurt to RTFM either.
 
Damn Darwin thwarted by technology again. This is why we suck, too many people live.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Damn Darwin thwarted by technology again. This is why we suck, too many people live.
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Since he was 76 at the time of the accident, I'd guess that any contributions to the gene pool have already been made.

EDIT: Heh, Brad had the same thought...

One things that strikes me as being neat about this report is the ability to get quasi-FDR analysis on a light single accident.
 
tiger said:
Since he was 76 at the time of the accident, I'd guess that any contributions to the gene pool have already been made.
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I guess that's why Cirrus pilots keep crashing. Most pilots have already made their genetic contributions before they ever step foot in a TAA. :)
 
The unfortunate pilot probably could fly by hand just fine. If you read the report you'll see that he mistakenly put the autopilot into a roll and pitch command mode, instead of an ils intercept mode.

When he did that he was surprised and manually rolled the airplane to wings level. But he forgot to disengage the autopilot, so as soon as he let go of the joystick the airplane rolled again. At that point he probably got completely disoriented.

Sadly, his Cirrus had the 'straight and level' button, that might have saved his airplane had he pushed it. But then again, pulling the handle saved his a**, enabling him to walk away from the landing.

When the pilot commenced the approach, the aircraft
was being flown with the autopilot engaged in approach
and vertical speed mode.

When the pilot reengaged
the autopilot after the first disconnection, the autopilot
engaged in default modes of PITCH HOLD and ROLL
HOLD.

However, probably due to the high workload
he was experiencing, the pilot did not notice that the
autopilot was now operating in different modes from
before. The pilot expected the aircraft to continue on
the approach centreline and, when he noticed that the
aircraft was maintaining a left bank, he overrode the
autopilot in an attempt to level the aircraft.

As the
autopilot was still engaged, every time the pilot relaxed
on the controls the aircraft tried to regain the roll attitude
that existed at the time of engagement.

This unfamiliar
aircraft behaviour led to a series of roll oscillations as
the pilot intermittently overrode the autopilot. After
approximately 18 seconds, the pilot again disconnected
the autopilot but the aircraft was displaced left of the
approach centreline.

By this stage, the pilot was
confused and distracted by the unexpected aircraft
behaviour and, in his attempts to regain the approach
path, he started over-controlling in roll and then in
pitch. The variations of pitch, roll, height and airspeed
increased to the extent that he became disorientated and,
when he assessed that he could not safely regain control,
he operated the BRS.
Click to expand...
 
JimNtexas said:
Sadly, his Cirrus had the 'straight and level' button, that might have saved his airplane had he pushed it.
Click to expand...

At the first sign of anything weird I'm pushing the big red button and leaving the thing off. Figure it out on the ground.
 
I'm very glad the pilot is alive and as is is still alive he made the proper decision regardless of what could have been done better in my book. He knew he didn't understand the automation, got disoriented and failed to recover.

The first fatality I ever saw ended up being two older gentlemen, very experienced pilots, in a plane they owned and had just upgraded avionics on. Their first approach in IMC was going back home and they were COMMITTED to letting the automation take over. 4 missed approaches later they augered in.
 
JimNtexas said:
The unfortunate pilot probably could fly by hand just fine. If you read the report you'll see that he mistakenly put the autopilot into a roll and pitch command mode, instead of an ils intercept mode.

When he did that he was surprised and manually rolled the airplane to wings level. But he forgot to disengage the autopilot, so as soon as he let go of the joystick the airplane rolled again. At that point he probably got completely disoriented.

Sadly, his Cirrus had the 'straight and level' button, that might have saved his airplane had he pushed it. But then again, pulling the handle saved his a**, enabling him to walk away from the landing.
Click to expand...

Agree. He's fighting the AP. I don't think there was enough information to say he was dependent upon the automation and incompetent, though I understand why many in this thread feel that way.
 
Other may disagree, to me this just shows why I will have BRS! Could be simple brain fart, at his age could be more, who knows. The beautiful thing is he's alive to correct the issue! I bet he gets another Cirrus!
 
Just read the NTSB's sequence of events with Asiana. Seems this old chap's not the only one who didn't understand his aircraft's automation.
 
The pilot was almost 80 years old as well. Nothing against the older guys but realistically your brain starts slowing down well before that.

I'm thinking there's a reason a mandatory retirement age of 65 exists for Part 121 pilots.
 
I experienced the leans in IMC just last week. It wasn't the first time, nor will it be the last I'm sure. I own a G1000 equipped Diamond DA40 with a GFC700 autopilot, fly SPIFR on at least two legs every week between Dallas and Austin, and use the automation a lot. When it happens to me I have learned to focus my full attention on the attitude, airspeed and power, in that order, and if I perceive that ANYTHING is not what it should be I first disconnect the autopilot if it is engaged, then go through the unusual attitude drill that my CFII hammered into my DNA. It's a very simple sequence and only takes a few seconds to execute. It works for me every time.

This case does raise the question again of whether the PPL, and especially the IR, syllabi contain enough coverage of upset recovery. I'm sure there would be unanimous consensus that we could all use more. The question is how much more should be our universal baseline?
 
It's very easy to get into trouble ,if you don't truly understand the workings of your auto pilot. It's unfortunate so many , are condemning him because of his age. Would we be as critical if it was a younger pilot that saved his butt?
 
DrMack said:
I experienced the leans in IMC just last week. It wasn't the first time, nor will it be the last I'm sure. I own a G1000 equipped Diamond DA40 with a GFC700 autopilot, fly SPIFR on at least two legs every week between Dallas and Austin, and use the automation a lot. When it happens to me I have learned to focus my full attention on the attitude, airspeed and power, in that order, and if I perceive that ANYTHING is not what it should be I first disconnect the autopilot if it is engaged, then go through the unusual attitude drill that my CFII hammered into my DNA. It's a very simple sequence and only takes a few seconds to execute. It works for me every time.

This case does raise the question again of whether the PPL, and especially the IR, syllabi contain enough coverage of upset recovery. I'm sure there would be unanimous consensus that we could all use more. The question is how much more should be our universal baseline?
Click to expand...

I can understand how disconnecting the AP helps to get the brain in gear, but I also understand how the automation can be a remedy for spacial disorientation. I suppose it's a personal choice, but it's my understanding that the GFC700 is amongst the best of APs. I got nausea driving once and wished I had an AP, can't imagine flying IMC and not have that backup in the same situation.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I can understand how disconnecting the AP helps to get the brain in gear, but I also understand how the automation can be a remedy for spacial disorientation. I suppose it's a personal choice, but it's my understanding that the GFC700 is amongst the best of APs. I got nausea driving once and wished I had an AP, can't imagine flying IMC and not have that backup in the same situation.
Click to expand...


For me, disconnecting the AP is just part of my drill. Once I'm satisfied I'm truly wings level and airspeed is normal, I'll reconnect. I have mixed feelings about the level function because recovery is not just about attitude. Airspeed and power must also be immediately considered. I don't have a level function and maybe I would think differently about it if I could practice with it for awhile.
 
No disrespect but is this OCD?

I am not IR, so consider me a layperson
 
frfly172 said:
It's very easy to get into trouble ,if you don't truly understand the workings of your auto pilot. It's unfortunate so many , are condemning him because of his age. Would we be as critical if it was a younger pilot that saved his butt?
Click to expand...

I'm not condemning him for his age but you can't ignore the fact that the brain of a 76 year old isn't as fast at processing information as one of a 30 year old.

It's not my opinion. It's a fact.

http://www.kines.umich.edu/content/brain-connections-break-down-we-age

http://www.zmescience.com/research/studies/brain-slower-with-age-old-31234/

http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/0...onnections-slows-our-reaction-time/18031.html
 
People give me a hard time for doing 2600nm round trips without using the A/P in my airplane, just hand flying the entire time in and out of IMC. Then I read threads like this and it makes me glad that I do.

Automation is great and can reduce your workload if you know how to use it properly. However, if you don't, it can quickly get in the way, or kill you.

I also like that hand flying the plane keeps you closely in touch with how the plane is performing in real time, and allows you to quickly detect any changes in performance.
 
eeeehhh, some respect for your elders.
All I have to do is squint slightly and I can see 77.
And, yeah I'm still flying - and have been since before many of you were born.
The guy in the article got in over his head (shrug).
Seems like Ron pointed out in another thread that the chain of events that crashes the airplane begins before the loose nut on the yoke gets into the cockpit (heavily paraphrased)

Let me ask a rhetorical question of you young squirts:
I didn't crash when I was 20.
Or when I was 30.
Or when I was 40.
Or 50 or 60 or even past 70.
Whut-n-ell makes you think I'm gonna crash now?
 
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