Uber tipping?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Jim K, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. sarangan

    sarangan Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    672
    Location:
    Dayton, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Andrew Sarangan, CFII

    How did Uber get away with running a transportation service without having commercially certified drivers? None of the Uber rides I have taken happen to be going where I wanted to go. Just calling it rider share doesn't make it a ride "share". I am just curious how that happened.
     
    UngaWunga likes this.
  2. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    6,085
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MauleSkinner
    Because, unlike flying, driving is an inalienable right.
     
  3. George Mohr

    George Mohr Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2016
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Gmohr
    Not sure what you mean. Drivers clock in and out where they want, when they want. Uber has extremely little actual control, contrasting that to pretty much any full time employer. I agree with you that they take too much revenue from the drivers, but that's a business decision and not a legal one.
     
  4. tiger

    tiger Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    253
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    tiger
    I personally see this as a far more 'disruptive' (to use the tech industry mot du jour) achievement than what they've accomplished technologically. Uber appears to be a law and lobbying firm with a tech department.

    Their model is, on its face, against the spirit of a heap of laws and regulation. They've managed to both prevail in (almost all) legal challenges and also prevent the passage of 'clarifying' legislation that would make their violation of the 'spirit' a violation of the 'letter'. Whatever you think of their business, I find that truly remarkable.
     
    Jim K likes this.
  5. UngaWunga

    UngaWunga Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,443
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    UngaWunga
    Not really. Big business does that all the time. If you have more lawyers than anyone else, you tend to get your way, where its "right" or not.
     
  6. tiger

    tiger Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    253
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    tiger
    I agree with you to an extent, but I still think this an exceptional example in being both ubiquitous and in such plain public sight.

    Big companies still get regulatory or legal spankings, but I think part of the issue with "ride-sharing" is that the service is so damn popular. Probably aren't too many pols or AGs who feel that going after Uber would help them get reelected.
     
  7. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,442
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Juliet Hotel
    Probably similar to the way it came to pass that chiropractors are able to practice 'medicine' without being doctors. Lots of things are possible if you know the right people and/or know or create the right loopholes in the law. What I find particularly disturbing is that neither Lyft nor Uber drug test anyone unless and until they have an accident. RIght we don't need to drug test new applicants for our "earn extra money in your spare time" business because everyone knows that people who use drugs are never in need of extra money so therefore they won't bother to apply. :rolleyes:
     
  8. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,076
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    Sorry, but no. I review it every couple of months. Please don't assume I'm an idiot.
    See above. Incorrect, and apparently either cable rates are way, way different where you live, or you assume I'm a complete idiot, or you're simply not factoring in all the "little extras"

    AT&T TV (used to be DirecTV Now) costs me $50 a month. We are indeed grandfathered to have all the old DTV Now channels, otherwise I'd have left already, but we'll probably jump ship very soon. Sling Orange + Blue would cost $10 less (after the discount period), but our reception of the local channels is not perfect and it's another app (I bought HD Homerun boxes years ago). But that that is our total TV streaming cost. If one raises rates, we can switch to another any time without any ridiculous rental of equipment, contracts, startup fees or any of that nonsense. We switched to DTVNow from Hulu with Live TV, and will probably switch to something else before long becuase AT&T is jacking up rates while removing channels. I have zero loyalty. The only thing I will absolutely not do is switch back to our cable company, or any satellite service. I like being able to actually watch TV uninterrupted when we're getting snow and rain storms.

    The cable TV we dropped was costing us, with no premium channels, $84.99 per month after the initial "deal" wore off. PLUS another $17.47 for cable box rental (mandatory, and that was 3 TVs, no DVR of any sort). PLUS another $10.10 in "franchise fee" and "regional sports" surcharge. That's $112.56 per month for cable. Now, check my math here, but it looks to me like we're spending less money now. Hell, if they gave us cable for free they'd STILL cost us almost $30 a month. Of course they'll discount that a little. Not enough to get under double the price of streaming, and only if you buy their landline service at nearly $50 per month (no, I'm not making that up; I have the actual statements to back it up).

    So it's streaming and Ooma, and yes, I keep track of every penny we spend compared to what we were spending before. We've shaved roughly $100 per month off our total spend on TV, Internet, and phone service. It would be more, but I decided to blow some of the extra on Hulu and Netflix so we can watch some really good series that you can't get on cable. Oh, and when I went in with my big box of cable equipment and crap to cancel everything but the Internet service, they were nice enough to offer us 1GB/sec Internet for $35 per month LESS than we had been paying for 300Mb/sec service... and threw in a new cable modem/wifi router. No intro deal, that's the "permanent" price, period. So there's that. I was concerned about the data cap they put in place a couple years back -- 1TB/month unless you pay extra for unlimited -- but we very rarely hit more than 50% of that, and usually less. We've never hit 75%, and remember -- I'm a full time telecommuter, so I'm on a VPN connection anywhere from 9 to 24 hours a day.

    Please don't assume I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  9. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    17,215
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Again, if by GROSS you mean the amount remitted to the driver before he pays for his gas, etc..., you're still wrong.
     
  10. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Never said you were an idiot. Said prices have gone up. You did however make these mistakes:

    - Used the post-“deal” price only on the cable. You have to average the deal and post deal price to get the actual monthly price of cable. Granted, the longer you go, the worse it gets, but swapping services is a common way to alleviate that “deal” silliness. (You proved it with the Internet pricing. When you threatened to leave what was the deal to stay with all services? They do that.)

    - In most areas the regional sports surcharge isn’t mandatory. If it’s not, those channels must be purchased on streaming and they’ll be roughly the same price.

    - Sling is an “also ran” in the streaming biz. It’s not an apples to apples comparison to remove locals. Especially for anyone who has to invest in outdoor antenna systems. That wipes out the gain very quickly.

    - You technically have to include the Internet cost as part of the streaming. Yes, you’ll “have it anyway” and use it for other things, but it’s mandatory or the streaming is dead. Once you add that back on as a must-have, even if you want to pro-rate it to actual video use... but really you can’t, it’s an all or nothing deal since it kills the entire streaming system without it... the numbers come a lot closer yet.

    I get it. I like streaming. I have it. It has benefits. All I said was you hadn’t priced it correctly recently for a channel for channel match. It’s not that much cheaper anymore. Like you said, grandfathered with the old channels. A new subscriber isn’t.

    One area you absolutely are correct is in equipment rentals and that’s definitely annoying but about 1/10 of the cost in most areas. Interestingly buying equipment has its downsides also. I like it better than renting but I’ve had a lightning strike take out two early AppleTVs which were replaced under insurance and I’ve now given away five of them that were truly too old to really be useful for much. The price of obsolescence falls back on the consumer in streaming and many have gone from 720, to 1080, to 4K on their own dime multiplied by number of TVs. You also didn’t mention if you have.

    The channel for channel thing is the important part of my first message. The streamers are constantly losing content contracts and regaining them after negotiations. None of those are going down in price for them, per the industry and Street scuttlebutt. They’re going up. So prices shall continue to rise.

    Other examples of similar channel to channel comparisons needed, include stupid stuff like AT&T owned DirecTV NOW doesn’t carry AT&T SportsNet. Hahaha. Think about that one for a minute and laugh... in a market that has five major league teams, AT&T doesn’t carry their own sponsored content provider on their own streaming service. LOL. (Not to mention in the same town, not a single streaming service carries the Altitude Network either, so if you’re streaming, you’re locked out of two major league teams in the same town.)

    Those two examples are just to show the immaturity still of the offering. Pricing will have to go up for those, also.

    And yes, we do have better deals than you were getting on cable in the metro. Out here, nah. Isn’t a cable in the ground for miles other than Centurylink’s copper and it’s hooked to a clapped out 1.5Mb/sec DSLAM. Which could be upgraded but won’t. They’re broke asses. Nobody willingly uses them for anything. I would barely trust them with a POTS line anymore.

    So calm down there, I wasn’t claiming you weren’t intelligent or whatever you thought. You do have some errors in your pricing comparisons. Some simple, some impossible to really get a proper comparison.

    But my point was that pricing will continue to go higher, and content is not the same between cable and streaming at all, yet. And in things that actually count, like the sports networks, but also goofiness like stupid CBS trying to do their own steaming thing... All Access? More like “Look at me I built my own streaming site!” LOL.

    It’ll end up working it’s way up to match pricing with cable eventually. If it stays lower it’ll just be the difference in transport cost, the cable will still need to be there for the bits...

    And of course the whole fake Net Neutrality battle will come back when one of the streamers doesn’t pay for enough data center connectivity and claims bias of the network... again... LOL.

    (Having worked backbone stuff, nobody has time to slow anybody else’s stuff down. If it’s slow, they didn’t pay for enough bandwidth at the head end, or didn’t diversify content distribution servers enough geographically and expect someone else to drag it long haul for them with no bottlenecks without paying for that.)

    Like I said. I like streaming. It won’t end up in the end any cheaper than the other stuff. It’s all just pumping bits around. And the content owners still have all these distribution systems squarely by the balls.

    People have to be careful they’re getting what they want when switching and expect blackouts of content providers on all of them. In the end it’ll just be a question of whether they want to own the gear or rent it.

    Another technical nitpick — to really compare apples to apples one has to measure compression. Full HD and even 4K isn’t always what you’re truly getting on streamers or cable. That requires knowing what they’re doing on the compression side of things. They’ve gotten pretty good at hiding it but when you have limited a pipe to 10Mb/s or lower to a device and the streamer still says you’re getting “HD” well... it’s not 1080p. :) All sorts of fun and games with that will continue... forever. :)

    Sounds like you’re in the sweet spot for your uses for now. It’s too bad it won’t stay there as far as pricing goes for new subscribers and eventually all of us.
     
  11. N1120A

    N1120A Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Messages:
    808
    Location:
    AG5B MYF
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    N1120A
    When Uber started, their take was closer to 20%. That increased over time, and the really crazy increase in their take was when they started treating their take during a surge differently from standard pricing.

    My guess is that you're "not sure what (I) mean" because you're not a lawyer, and certainly not an employment lawyer. Uber uses drivers to engage in activities that are part and parcel of their business model, retains substantial control over where those drivers go, how much they have to work when they have the app on (I bet you know nothing about their acceptance rate policy) and can turn them off at will. The control model makes Uber drivers employees in most jurisdictions, particularly in Uber's home state.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    UngaWunga and denverpilot like this.
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    It’s good to know for history, but the real thing to know is that they’re likely taking 35% from the driver today, when you’re deciding if you are too cheap to tip today... like some here... LOL.

    They’re kinda like JG Wentworth... ha...

    “Do you have a late model car that can be depreciated faater? Do you want to turn that depreciation into cash, today? Uber can help with that!”
     
    N1120A likes this.
  13. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,076
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    Christ, I hate responding to a novella, but suit up... we're going in.
    The post-"deal" price was the only offer. They didn't offer anything better and I didn't "threaten" to leave, I just canceled. I had discussed it with them before. They offered better (but still sh**ty) deal, but only for new subscribers. Existing customer who's been with them 20-plus years? Get stuffed. If you want the "deal" they offer, you have to come back as a "new customer". As soon as I cancelled, we started getting offers in the mail to sign up for exactly what we had before, for a substantially reduced price... which was STILL still more than our streaming service costs, and that was BEFORE the equipment rental and surcharges, which would make it double the cost of streaming, and of course in 12 months you have to play the exact same game all over again. And all this for the privilege of spending more money and having to re-install all their crap equipment and go back to two remotes for every TV, since theirs won't control the freaking volume on ours (like the Fire TV Stick remote does quite well). Gosh, thanks, but I think I'll pass.
    Incorrect for our market. No choice, since BTN is part of the basic package, and no, we're not paying extra for any sports access now either. We watch zero pro sports.
    We already have the antenna in place, and an HD Homerun box, but there are other reasons we've not tried Sling. There are half a dozen choices, I just used them as one example. There's also YouTube TV, Hulu, PS, and others. Sling would be more attractive to us if we lived at the top of the hill rather than the bottom, but here it would just be a hassle and I'm looking to reduce hassle, not increase it.
    No, I technically really don't. We have to have the Internet access, period. I'm a telecommuter, remember? And even if I could, theoretically, drop it, that means the "bundle" deal with the local cable carrier goes away, bringing the cost almost up to the same price as with Internet access. See, their TV is all streaming digital anyway, so their infrastructure is the same with or without Internet access. So whether we went back to the cable company or not, our Internet cost would not vary one cent. Period. So no, it's really not something I need to figure into the cost of streaming. No more than you'd need to include the cost of heating your house in winter when calculating how much it's going to cost to have another family member live with you.
    Poppycock. I have already shown the reduced cost with our actual numbers. Our total monthly spend for Internet, phone, and TV watching, even with Hulu and Netflix added on to watch things we could not watch with cable TV alone, is over $100 per month less than we were spending before. And I can switch to several other streaming providers at any time, without giving up anything we watch. Hulu (at a slightly lower cost, actually), PS Vue, YT TV, or Sling - which would be a third choice because our local channels would have to use a different app, so it's not convenient. Last would be going back to Hulu, simply because they don't carry AMC, and we won't give up TWD.
    I bought Fire TV 4K sticks for all of the TVs we watch. It cost me, in total, less than one month of price difference between cable and streaming. And buying cable TV receivers is not an option with our local provider. You are required to rent their crap from them.
    Which was really the entire point of what I originally said, so congratulations, we've finally gotten back to that.
    You seem to keep looking for some hypothetical theoretical "thing" I've missed, but it's simply not there. Oh, I suppose you could factor in the dozens of Spanish channels we no longer get (that we didn't want to begin with), or put some sort of value on missing EWTN or something. But facts is facts. We're getting now what we got before, and paying a crap load less money for it.
    In practice, for the vast majority of us, it is. Unless you're addicted to EWTN or C-Span or something, you'll likely find a streaming service that has everything you want.
    And again... we can keep digging for theoretical "differences" that would prove some sort of point, but in reality there aren't any. Our old cable service was entirely digital; that's why a cable "receiver" box was required for each TV (plus then they get to charge another few bucks per TV every month). We saw the same compression artifacts with the same regularity when we were spending $100+ more per month. Maybe it helps that the pipe to our Fire TV devices is a few hundred Mbps at worst.
    Again, that was really my whole point, before you decided to try and nit-pick it to death.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  14. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    You really shouldn’t do things you hate. It’s not good for you. LOL.

    No, you turned it personal and it wasn’t really intended to analyze your specific TV watching habits.

    As you may recall, we were discussing how Uber and Lyft will have to increase in price to maintain the services you like from them today... or keep duping their employees into paying their fleet losses. You made noises about deregulation being the real reason.

    Then we made a side step into supposedly how unregulated TV services are better and cheaper as a response to that. They are just barely right now, just like Uber and Lyft and losing as much money, too. I say supposedly unregulated because you still need a regulated data service for them to work. Can’t have more than one cable company in a town, of course. Might have made the poles look messy. Definitely regulated. Heavily.

    My point on the streaming toy companies was that new subs are already paying more and that trend looks to continue ... until they match pricing with the cable companies. They don’t have control of their distribution channel, they don’t have control of their content channel.

    They’re going to get squeezed from both ends and blamed for it, too. :)

    It’s essentially just the old “there’s no such thing as a free lunch”. And it’s catching up right now for all of those tech companies.

    As the other article shows, Uber needs more money from their cut to make Wall Street happy.

    These streamers eventually will too.

    I’ll dangle the carrot though. You wanted deregulation, so Net Neutrality isn’t necessary for any of these streamers to survive, right?

    No regulations needed? :)
     
  15. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,076
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    Apparently you have me confused with someone else. I said nothing of the sort... anywhere. Go back and re-read my posts. All I did was compare the crap ride I got from a cab company to a very nice ride from Uber, at substantially less cost. Period.
    Which was, in a nutshell, pretty much what I said, then you decided to try to find some way you could say the exact same thing and prove me wrong. Sigh. Try re-reading this again:
    Sounds to me like I pointed out that streaming TV service rates have been trending upward, and would eventually reach the levels where cable TV is now. Or am I completely mis-readng my own post here? That would be quite a feat, even for me.
    And again, I will ask you to please point out where I said anything of the sort. I'll wait.
     
  16. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    16,543
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    I would have to agree with that!
     
  17. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Fair enough.
     
  18. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Messages:
    6,791
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Pasta Man
    This just in: Exceptionally funny Uber driver today on the way to the airport. I tipped him $5.
     
    denverpilot likes this.
  19. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Posted by someone else, elsewhere. Just happened to see it ...

    Lookie there. DC government needed to make sure their taxes weren’t being lost from cabs...

    Probably been that way for a while. But there ya go, if not already happening in your area, coming soon from a government near you...

    Can’t let those golden opportunities to sneak bucks out of your wallet slip away.

    “Digital dispatch fee”... WTF is that?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Cluemeister

    Cluemeister Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    678
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cluemeister
    Interesting how the heavily government regulated, licensed, and medallioned taxi business resulted in poorly maintained cabs, awful routes and availability, and high fares. A system comes out based upon the free market, and it's wildly popular. Now those affected are howling.

    If successful, their push to make Uber drivers employees will surely kill it off. Which I'm certain is the intent.
     
    Hang 4 likes this.
  21. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    13,722
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    I tip with cash. A good deal of the drivers ,are driving for both Uber and lyft.
     
  22. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    17,215
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    The DC government doesn't see that money. Those fees go to MWAA. The airport is in VIRGINIA and is run by an independent board run by members appointed by Maryland, DC, and Virginia governments.
     
  23. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Doesn’t really matter for the point being made that government has its hooks into both rideshares anytime it wants already, but it’s nice trivia. ;)
     
  24. woodchucker

    woodchucker Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,176
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    woodchucker
    @Brad Z You aren’t the only one! I also drove Uber/Lyft starting around when you did. Maybe a year before I quit. For me it was more of a social experiment and yeah, hope to net a few extra bucks.

    One thing I didn’t see mentioned here is that drivers pay extra for ride share insurance. So beyond paying for fuel and wear and tear, insurance was quite a bit more. I’m sure plenty of drivers go without but it wasn’t worth the risk.

    I drove (still do) a 2015 Camry, super clean. Full tinted windows, added blue LED lighting inside, played Pandora music and asked if they had music preferences, etc. One lady kept telling me I should apply to drive as an Uber black lol. It’s a Camry lady, not a Mercedes.

    Met fellow mathematicians, professional musicians, a flight crew once where they were heading to a bar. Had a couple of drag queens totally rocking it, and some sad gay dude who hitched a ride to Salt Lake to meet a prospective partner and it didn’t work out. I ended up giving him my box of tissues. It was an interesting experience. Best tip was a 1 am ride, she was heading home but it was only about 10 miles or so. $80. Mostly tips were around $5.

    And I really don’t get some of you bragging about not tipping. It’s an American thing in general where service workers are underpaid, and expect tips to balance things out. If you are born and raised in this country you should know that, or have lived an incredibly entitled life. Other countries tipping is considered rude, a personal insult. In the US it’s considered customary. If you can’t afford $5 for a ride as a tip to the driver then you ought to take the bus or train. Tip me one dollar? No thanks. That’s an insult dude. I tip 20-30% at restaurants and Great Clips. Sometimes 50%. Heck, at a local airport the line guy came out to marshal me in and rolled out a red carpet and left a cooler with ice and drinks in it. I stuffed a $10 bill into the ear muffs he left by the cooler. Now, if the service is poor, then no, I don’t tip. That’s happened twice.

    And I’m only a teacher and my wife works as a payroll/insurance person for a non-profit. We aren’t rolling in dough here. You cheap azzes who probably make double what we do really shouldn’t be so proud of your stinginess. Thankfully you are in the minority in that regard. :rolleyes:
     
  25. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    4,908
    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad Z
    For a while, no tipping was considered an Uber feature, not a flaw. As compensation tightened on drivers, tipping was added as a option in the app to retain drivers with promise of more $$.

    But ultimately, the Uber model of 2016 was not sustainable long term. I remember discussing with passengers that the fare they were paying was less than the payment I was receiving. Thank gawd for VC funding, lol. I left when they started forcing drivers to participate in UberPool. I signed up to drive a taxi, not a bus, sigh.

    I stil use Uber. My of my trips are short < $10 trips so I usually tip $2. Maybe $5 for longer trips, or more for somewhere really out of the way. I always tip cash, because the driver can see that I tipped before he reviews me, so I've managed to keep a perfect 5* passenger rating.
     
  26. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,076
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DaleB
    Granted I've not traveled extensively, but that hasn't been the case anywhere I've been. Customs differ though. In Germany we learned that it's customary to tip a small amount (like a Euro or less) and hand it directly to the server. Just leaving it on the table like we typically do here is considered rude. Denmark was pretty much the same. Korean cabbies never complained about tips. And Egypt runs, I'm told by a friend who visited recently, almost entirely on "baksheesh".

    I always try to learn ahead of time what the local customs and attitudes are toward tipping (among other things) in an attempt to try not to seem like a complete dick when we travel. Occasionally I'm successful, but I do have a French lawyer on retainer now and I'm probably still kind of PNG with Citröen. o_O
     
  27. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,766
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spun Out
    Yes, I tip. Usually about $2 to $5 depending on the fare.
    Put it in perspective. Your hamburger run cost you about $450. Of that, say you tipped $3. That is about a half of a percent of your trip cost. How are you going to feel tomorrow because you don't have that $3. How is that Uber driver going to feel if he had a dozen customers tip him $3 each.

    I am totally against giving people money for not working, but when I see someone attempting to support themself and their family by providing me a service, I feel better when I tip.

    But if you are @Salty , then just give them the finger. ;)
     
  28. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    4,788
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Wouldn’t you feel even better if you tipped them $10?
     
  29. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,766
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spun Out
    No. I think there is a tipping version of the Laffer curve.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  30. woodchucker

    woodchucker Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,176
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    woodchucker
    My experience was Asia, back in the 90s during my time in the Navy. I doubt that has changed.
     
  31. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    81
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OneCharlieTango
    When Uber started, they had generally nice cars and didn't allow tipping. Now the cars are smelly crap and they want you to tip.

    Not tipping is the WHOLE POINT of Uber, since a smelly private car is no better than a smelly cab.
     
  32. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,766
    Location:
    Florida
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Spun Out
    I've never seen a dirty old smelly Uber or Lyft car.

    Now that I said that, I fully expect my next one to be crappy. We'll see.

    But I don't think "no tipping" was the whole point. What I like about Uber is they are there in minutes. I have been known to have to wait hours for a taxi. And you can track where your Uber ride is with their app. I think that is so cool.
     
  33. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    17,215
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Yep, if the cab companies had banded together for some unified app like Uber/Lyft, they might give it a run for the money. It's excruciating getting a cab in a lot of metro areas.
     
    Brad Z likes this.
  34. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    4,788
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    And there’s my problem with tipping. It’s totally abstract and pointlessly complicated. I’m a believer in agreeing to a transaction ahead of time and both fulfill the contract rather than this nebulous construct where people have to ask on a website what they are supposed to do. No matter how much you give, you could give more. You never know what’s enough. Heck, why shouldn’t you be tipping enough they can stop doing the crappy job?
     
  35. SoCal 182 Driver

    SoCal 182 Driver Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2019
    Messages:
    62
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    SoCal 182 Driver
    Always. Along with to-go servers at restaurants, and just about any other service provider.

    Many, if not most, of us own planes. Others rent. We pay $5-6 a gallon for avgas. These people are often scraping by, and a tip of the equivalent of a gallon of avgas (or less) means a lot more to them than to us, IMHO.

    My attitude comes from this story, which happened to me: Decades ago, I was touring in Mexico and was in a shop that sold tourist trinkets. At least at the time, haggling was expected, and I enjoyed the game. So there I was, haggling over an item, and we were a dollar apart. I said to the shop owner, "c'mon, it's only a dollar." His reply was, "a dollar is a bowl of rice to me and my family, senor, what does it mean to you?" Properly chagrined, I paid the man and left the store. Lesson learned.
     
  36. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,525
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    For most jobs at the tipping level, you’re paying to KEEP them doing the crappy job, and not starving to death.

    It’s not particularly abstract. You know what they make. You aren’t stupid. Applying a couple of brain cells to do third grade math can be done along with other tasks, like keeping the charming dinner conversation going or checking flight times on the way to the airport.

    Not that hard for the vast majority of pilots, anyway. So I’m not buying that it’s “too abstract” for anyone here. We aren’t talking imaginary numbers or calculus.
     
  37. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    16,307
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Full Send Mode
    When I first saw the title of this thread, I was thinking the automotive version of cow tipping.
     
  38. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    4,788
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Okay. Except there is no formula. You're pretending you know the economics of everybody out there better than they and their employer would if they got a normal job that doesn't have this insane custom attached to it. Employers exploit the custom.

    I believe the employee should know what he's going to get paid for an hour of work up front, and I should know what my drive is going to cost up front. There should be no math needed. This insane custom does NOTHING but allow employers to exploit their employees or distort the cost of their services to the customers. NOTHING.
     
    OneCharlieTango likes this.
  39. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2005
    Messages:
    32,088
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Everskyward
    But the reality is the world doesn't work the way you think it should work, so you end up punishing the employee.
     
    kayoh190 and denverpilot like this.
  40. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    13,166
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    They are all rational human beings and able to decide whether the rates the rideshare companies pay make it worthwhile for them.

    The only problem I see is when people lease cars specifically to drive for Uber/Lyft (easy to tell if a Uber with NY plates and VA commercial sticker picks you up in DC). Now they have moved past the 'oh I just use my car to make a little bit of money on the side'. Now the platform has motivated someone to open a business that is based on a very uncertain payback.

    I drove a cab for a living for 8 years. All evening and nights. I enjoyed the work, got to drive people from the beggar who took a cab back to the shelter up to a billionaire and various celebrities. Fares from $2.70 flag fee up to $1200 to get some techno DJ to his next gig. I have picked up groceries and prescriptions, shuttled children between divorced parents and got desperate travellers to their plane without a minute to spare. I had a knife pulled on me and had to manhandle my share of drunks, but I have also been propositioned by attractive women...... Good times.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.