UAVs vs. RC Airplanes

[SkyHog]

My dad does a lot of work on UAVs, and while he gets a lot of terminology wrong (I try to help him, but he's not a pilot, and doesn't really care to be one), we both came up with an awesome question that we're not sure how to define.

When does a Remote Control Airplane become a Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, and then subject to the scrutiny that UAVs go through before being allowed to fly in any part of the NAS?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Just a guess- when it flies out of line of sight of the operator/pilot? RC planes don't (usually) have anything that lets them fly autonomously, so they need to be in view of the pilot. So in theory thay shouldn't interfere with manned vehicles. See & avoid. They also tend to fly low (below 1000'). There are exceptions- some one (I think it was last year) had a model fly across the Atlantic to Ireland. This had a GPS to maintain course, so it was autonomous.

There are rules about flying them close to airports and so forth, but I don't have them in front of me to cite.

 

[poadeleted20]

From "Unmanned Aircraft Operations in the National Airspace System" (Docket No. FAA-2006-25714) http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf:

The current FAA policy for UAS operations is that no person may operate a UAS in

the National Airspace System without specific authority. For UAS operating as public
aircraft the authority is the COA, for UAS operating as civil aircraft the authority is special​

airworthiness certificates, and for model aircraft the authority is AC 91-57.

AC 91-57 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf) sets no size limits, but authorizes operations only up to 400 AGL and says to notify the airport manager, control tower, or on-field FSS of all operations within 3 miles of an airport.

 

[PittsDriver]

I live and fly routinely in and out of the Washington ADIZ. About a year ago I got in to RC and started flying at a local RC field that's actually at the edge of the Class B surface area of an airport inside the ADIZ. So, being a pilot, and thinking maybe I've got more to risk than some of these guys, asked the question one day "How does what we're doing here not run afoul of the TSA, homeland defense, and the WashDC ADIZ that expressly prohibits UAVs in the air space?" The response I got was "Hell, I don't know. But, you can ask that guy right over there..." I turned around and there unloading a bunch big RC birds from the the trunk of his car was a ex-FSDO guy that I knew and now works in the DC HQ for the FAA. So I walk over and ask him the same question. His response was:

"The FAA has no knowledge of any unauthorized UAV or RC flying being conducted inside the Washington DC ADIZ."

He winked and headed over to a station and started setting up his bird.

So, there ya go...

 

[Dave2]

When does a Remote Control Airplane become a Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, quote]

When it cost the tax payers more than a million bucks and the tax payer doesn't get to fly it.

 

[jesse]

Just a guess- when it flies out of line of sight of the operator/pilot? RC planes don't (usually) have anything that lets them fly autonomously, so they need to be in view of the pilot. So in theory thay shouldn't interfere with manned vehicles. See & avoid. They also tend to fly low (below 1000'). There are exceptions- some one (I think it was last year) had a model fly across the Atlantic to Ireland. This had a GPS to maintain course, so it was autonomous.

There are rules about flying them close to airports and so forth, but I don't have them in front of me to cite.

Based on what I've learned about RC over the last few months--I can say without a doubt there are plenty of RC folks in this country that fly their airplanes out of sight and often miles away from them. Generally have powerful radios and live video transmitters on the airplane. Some of them will wear full goggles so it looks like they're in the plane.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Based on what I've learned about RC over the last few months--I can say without a doubt there are plenty of RC folks in this country that fly their airplanes out of sight and often miles away from them. Generally have powerful radios and live video transmitters on the airplane. Some of them will wear full goggles so it looks like they're in the plane.

I suppose the rules have changed? I thought there was a limit on the power allowed for the transmitter that controls the plane? Or maybe just the technology has changed...

This has me slightly concerned- looking for traffic through a video camera is something like looking at the world through a soda straw and it is easy to miss stuff. As for the pilot of the large plane- they may think an RC plane is further away then they think due to the samller size of the RC plane and be late taking evasive action. Insofar as it hasn't been a problem, I have only a slight concern. I probably fly higher than they do so conflicts are avoided that way.

 

[Dave2]

I suppose the rules have changed? I thought there was a limit on the power allowed for the transmitter that controls the plane? Or maybe just the technology has changed...

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately, it is easy to fly an RC plane out of sight. That is to say so far out that the controller can't really tell what the plane is doing, and this is with just off the shelf equipment.

 

[poadeleted20]

I suppose the rules have changed? I thought there was a limit on the power allowed for the transmitter that controls the plane?

That would be an FCC, not FAA, rule, and they include frequencies and power restrictions. See 47 CFR Part 95, Subpart C.

This has me slightly concerned- looking for traffic through a video camera is something like looking at the world through a soda straw and it is easy to miss stuff.

It has the FAA concerned, too, and if you read the document I linked earlier, you'll see that "see and avoid" is the major stumbling block for UAS operations.

 

[jmaynard]

I suppose the rules have changed? I thought there was a limit on the power allowed for the transmitter that controls the plane?

That would be an FCC, not FAA, rule, and they include frequencies and power restrictions. See 47 CFR Part 95, Subpart C.

For completeness' sake, I'll note that not all RC model operations are conducted under part 95. More than a few folks have gotten ham licenses so they can use the 50 MHz ham band for RC modeling. The equivalent rule for hams is 47 CFR 97.215 specifically, and the rest of part 97 in general.

 

[jesse]

I suppose the rules have changed? I thought there was a limit on the power allowed for the transmitter that controls the plane? Or maybe just the technology has changed...

This has me slightly concerned- looking for traffic through a video camera is something like looking at the world through a soda straw and it is easy to miss stuff. As for the pilot of the large plane- they may think an RC plane is further away then they think due to the samller size of the RC plane and be late taking evasive action. Insofar as it hasn't been a problem, I have only a slight concern. I probably fly higher than they do so conflicts are avoided that way.

Generally they pick up an amateur radio license and operate the airplane in the bands that are legal. Yes, it is probably not a good idea, just saying there are people out there doing it.

Get a good antenna setup and some basic radio knowledge and you'd be able to get some pretty impressive range.

 

[mikea]

From "Unmanned Aircraft Operations in the National Airspace System" (Docket No. FAA-2006-25714) http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf:


AC 91-57 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf) sets no size limits, but authorizes operations only up to 400 AGL and says to notify the airport manager, control tower, or on-field FSS of all operations within 3 miles of an airport.

Interesting. We had an RC field in the immediate next door farm and they notified anybody. The only thing I was told was they try to keep the planes away from real ones.

It was something else for a student to worry about as he saw a plane ahead on final.