Type rating confusion

[TMetzinger]

OK, my long term plans will be to eventually end up with an ATP cert with a B737 type rating (and maybe some other type ratings too).

I've been reading the FARs and talking to various sim training centers, and what I've been told is that when I have the 61.159 experience met, I can take the ATP written, go to 737 school at a sim center, and when I complete the course I'll be issued an ATP-AMEL cert with a B737 rating with a limitation that states:
"This certificate is subject to pilot-in-command limitations for the additional rating".

The limitation is due to my doing all the work in a sim, and not already having a type rating or equivalent experience. This is all spelled out in 61.157.g.7.ii, g.8, and g.9 (61.157.g is probably the most tortuous subsection I've ever seen). After 25 hours of supervised experience performing the duties of PIC, I can have the restriction removed.

OK - I'm clear on that. Here's the gotcha/workaround I think I've found. 61.157.g applies to the initial ATP or additional ratings on the ATP cert. It appears to me that if I went to 737 school and got the type rating in the sim added to my commercial-AMEL certificate (and didn't get the ATP ride at the same time), I'd get a 737 type rating with no restrictions on my commercial certificate.

Then, if I'm correct about that, I could go take the ATP-AMEL ride in a seminole, and my 737 type rating would be included on the ATP cert (in accordance with 61.157.d) with no limitation.

I'm sure I'm wrong about this, but can't find a way to prove it.

I also believe my other options would be:

• To go get typed in a smaller MEL turbojet (like a Citation) using the actual airplane and then I'd be good with the 737 rating under 61.157.g.3.A.
• Get typed in some place where I could fly an actual 737 for the operations in 61.157.g.7.k.

If any of you FARnatics can spot my error, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I may do the type rating stuff earlier rather than later.

 

[MauleSkinner]

You're right...you're wrong

The restriction on the type rating has to do with the type rating/simulator training, not the certificate that it's attached to.

I can't point you to the right regs, but my initial type rating was in the Citation, and I already had my ATP. The only reason I wasn't issued restrictions on my type rating is that had enough turboprop time to quaify for an unrestricted type rating.

Fly safe!

David

 

[poadeleted20]

The reg David is looking for to cover adding type ratings on Private and Commercial tickets in a sim is 61.63(e), and per that reg, the purely simulator 737 type rating on his CPL would carry the same "This certificate is subject to pilot-in-command limitations for the additional rating" limitation that he found for getting the type as part of an initial ATP ride in the 737 sim, and that limitation would carry over to the ATP then earned in a Seminole.

 

[TMetzinger]

Thanks, Ron! I knew it had to be there somewhere.

Back to the original plan, then. May go get the first jet type in something where we can do the ride in the sim and then go do the five specific tasks in the airplane itself.