Two thumbs up for LPV

pericynthion

pericynthion

Pre-takeoff checklist
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pericynthion
I'd promised a friend a joyride in my VariEze yesterday, on condition that he treat me to breakfast. The Two Niner Diner at Petaluma, CA does a decent meal. Better check the weather, O69 isn't reporting online. Phone the AWOS, uh-oh, broken at 400ft... but wait! As of a couple of months ago, there is a new precision GPS approach with 270ft minimums. Previous best was around 1000ft. How convenient for a small uncontrolled airport in the hills which often gets socked in by the marine layer.

Take off from 33 at OAK in the gloom under BKN014, radar vectors, break out into bright sunshine at 3500ft, direct JIVLI, cleared straight in GPS 29 approach. Back down into the soup, pop out of the clouds at 400ft AGL, there's the runway, land and total time in the air was 17 minutes. Not bad for IFR in the Bay. Tasty breakfast, too.

Here's the plate: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1113/06838R29.PDF
And the pics: http://imgur.com/a/tXmzB

...and they called me crazy for putting a GNS 480 in a VariEze... :wink2:
 
Technically it isn't a precision approach, but those GPS approaches to LPV mins sure are impressive! The needles are dead on the entire way down the glidepath, no wavering at all. Makes the ILS look old fashioned. Oh wait, it is.
 
very nice. 480 is a nice GPS. more button pushing less knob twisting. too bad they discontinued it. flying without a WAAS GPS is currently one of those things that I don't need to fly IFR but I sure like having
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Technically it isn't a precision approach, but those GPS approaches to LPV mins sure are impressive! The needles are dead on the entire way down the glidepath, no wavering at all. Makes the ILS look old fashioned. Oh wait, it is.
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It's not precision!
But it has "precision" in the title!
It's not precision!
....

And the FAA wonders why they get that WTF? look from the user community sometimes.
 
Wellll technically the title is Localizer Performance with Vertical guidance. I never did get the justification for not calling it a precision approach. On the right runways (lighting / obstacles) it's good for 200 and 1/2, same as ILS. They even let you use it as a precision approach for the IR checkride. A rose by any other name?
 
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I thought it was Localizer Precision with Vertical Guidance.... At least that's the term I remember from when it was first discussed before WAAS was deployed.

I see that I'm either misremembering or that it's changed. In either case, mea culpa, "precision" isn't part of the title anymore.
 
pericynthion said:
Wellll technically the title is Localizer Performance with Vertical guidance. I never did get the justification for not calling it a precision approach. On the right runways (lighting / obstacles) it's good for 200 and 1/2, same as ILS. They even let you use it as a precision approach for the IR checkride. A rose by any other name?
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I am right there with you. I don't understand why it is not considered a precision approach but for now it is classified as an APV (approach with vertical guidance). ICAO and FAA should change the definition of precision approach to include GPS approach with LPV mins.

Instrument PTS said:
Note: A localizer performance with vertical guidance (LPV) approach with a decision altitude (DA) greater than 300 feet height above terrain (HAT) may be used as a nonprecision approach; however, due to the precision of its glidepath and localizer-like lateral navigation characteristics, an LPV can be used to demonstrate precision approach proficiency (AOA VI TASK B ) if the DA is equal to or less than 300 feet HAT.
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TMetzinger said:
I thought it was Localizer Precision with Vertical Guidance.
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I believe it is officially titled "Localizer Performance with Vertical Guidance"

As an aside, I always make sure to show this graphic to my instrument students when talking about WAAS vs. non-WAAS GPS approaches. CDI scaling is really different.

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That's my home airport! In the last few years, we've added the AWOS, a ground link for Oakland Center and just got that LPV approach. We were close to getting a real identifier (KPET instead of O69), but the FAA decided to change their rules to require a 5000 ft runway for it.

Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I hope you bought fuel! :)

P.S. Coincidentally, we used this approach on my IR checkride in November for my precision approach.
 
I would have bought fuel, but since I left OAK with pretty much full tanks and only used 1 gallon on the ride over, it hardly seemed worthwhile... guess I will have to come back :)

On the way home I wasn't able to reach Center on the ground on 127.8, and had to fly patterns at 700ft (the cloudbase had risen some) for a few minutes while waiting for them to give me a clearance. Is that the right freq for the ground link? My antenna isn't the best, so it was probably just me. Guess it would have been better to phone on the ground, but hey I don't mind getting the scenic tour of Petaluma half a dozen times...
 
pericynthion said:
I would have bought fuel, but since I left OAK with pretty much full tanks and only used 1 gallon on the ride over, it hardly seemed worthwhile... guess I will have to come back :)

On the way home I wasn't able to reach Center on the ground on 127.8, and had to fly patterns at 700ft (the cloudbase had risen some) for a few minutes while waiting for them to give me a clearance. Is that the right freq for the ground link? My antenna isn't the best, so it was probably just me. Guess it would have been better to phone on the ground, but hey I don't mind getting the scenic tour of Petaluma half a dozen times...
Click to expand...

I think we're still getting the kinks worked out of the ground link. The antenna is located on top of the main office which is not in the line of site for Runway 29. It can be hard to get a hold of them there.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
I am right there with you. I don't understand why it is not considered a precision approach but for now it is classified as an APV (approach with vertical guidance).
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Just a guess but, maybe since it was "new technology" they wanted the extra 200' cushion when using it as an alternate airport.

And maybe that'll change once enough time has passed to allow the warm fuzzy feel to become firmly entrenched.

Or...

...maybe not.
 
timwinters said:
Just a guess but, maybe since it was "new technology" they wanted the extra 200' cushion when using it as an alternate airport.

And maybe that'll change once enough time has passed to allow the warm fuzzy feel to become firmly entrenched.

Or...

...maybe not.
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Old thread, but discussed here
 
Its not a precision approach because it doesn't have a DA, it has an MDA.

Very cool to fly some IFR in a VariEZ. I think I have seen you take off out of OAK before.
 
I guess what I meant was, no LPV approach can go down to an ILS minimum which is 200 feet. The lowest from what I remember is 250.
 
Inverted said:
I guess what I meant was, no LPV approach can go down to an ILS minimum which is 200 feet.
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Wrong again.
There are many LPVs that go down to 200, check for example LAL rwy 5.
There are even examples of LPVs at some airports having lower minimums than ILS to the same runway and such examples were discussed on these forums not long time ago.
 
Color me wrong then. I remember debating this with the check airmen on my last recurrent. but obviously things have changed. The plot only thickens as my company is gearing up for LP approaches. So we will have another section on GPS approach plates.
 
I guess the first LPVs with DA down to 200' were available for public use a good 3-4 years ago.
 
Sam D said:
That's my home airport! In the last few years, we've added the AWOS, a ground link for Oakland Center and just got that LPV approach. We were close to getting a real identifier (KPET instead of O69), but the FAA decided to change their rules to require a 5000 ft runway for it.

Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I hope you bought fuel! :)

P.S. Coincidentally, we used this approach on my IR checkride in November for my precision approach.
Click to expand...

My home airport too. Crazy to have three people in the same thread who land at Petaluma of all places.
 
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