Neal Howard
Cleared for Takeoff
That's what JC said about his SX-300. He called it divergent pitch instability.
The pitch sensitivity is what will kill you. I've never experienced anything like it ever before. Insane is about the only word.
Two-Seat Options
- Thread starter mcmanigle
- Start date
I wouldn't say that. It is quick, but it's easy enough to stay ahead of.
The pitch sensitivity is what will kill you. I've never experienced anything like it ever before. Insane is about the only word.
The Cobra I worked on in Australia was like that. A RAAF F-111 pilot crashed one in a PIO landing where the tail plain got stalled. I was there for the tail redesign and flew one of the old ones, holy crap, divergent pitch force is freaking scary.
Bill Watson
En-Route
Correction; I was wrong. An RV-4 is the perfect 2 place for a pilot who primarily flies alone. Affordable, fast, and fun.
Get RV4 or any higher number.
I like the 4, with a 210 HP Continental IO-360 it would be just perfect for me.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Why the 4 and not the 8? I assume the 8 has many improvements.
Cost 4 times as much, not exponentially more airplane.
kyleb
Final Approach
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Drake the Outlaw
Can't speak to the higher elevations part, but me @160 lbs, my buddy at 210, and enough campgear for a week at OSH do just fine in a 160 hp RV-6 with a fixed pitch wood prop. I've had it to 14,000' in the summer at ~1650 lbs and the only thing that made us stop there was a lack of O2.
Several favorable comments on RV in this thread...so I read through their website. Both the RV-9 (two-seat) and RV-10 (four) are so much less expensive than any of the Wichita-built competitors, that I must be missing something.
The cost estimator describes 'basic' or VFR avionics. Surely it can be equipped so the RV owner can fly on overcast days???
I'm still a PPL student, dreaming about owning a plane, but there are kids in college...
Other than the fact it would take a year to build, what are the downsides to RV?
The cost estimator describes 'basic' or VFR avionics. Surely it can be equipped so the RV owner can fly on overcast days???
I'm still a PPL student, dreaming about owning a plane, but there are kids in college...
Other than the fact it would take a year to build, what are the downsides to RV?
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
kyleb
Final Approach
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Drake the Outlaw
There are few disadvantages, and Van's cost estimator is a bit shy (IMO) on the panel costs for most builders. People are in an arms race there and are way overspending for their mission (IMO).
It'll take a lot more than a year to build unless you pretty much quit your life. 2,000 hours is 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. And you only finish one in 2,000 hours if you're really efficient.
Dav8or
Final Approach
The cost is lower because you have to put it together yourself, Vans has a fraction of the liability insurance and they never had to do any certification. The biggest downside is the part about putting it together. 4-5 years is more typical. Some people take ten and a whole lot never do finish.
The best way is to buy is one that is finished and make it your own. There are a lot of professional builders that seem to crank them out for just a little over the price of the parts. Usually all new, basic VFR, no paint and no interior sold with the 40 hours flown off. Then of course there are all the usual used ones that people have had for years. Sometimes it might be tough to stomach the paint jobs and many of the panels will make you scratch your head in bewilderment, but they can be a heck of a value.
Neal Howard
Cleared for Takeoff
Taking off from a high elevation airport fully loaded in a 160hp fixed pitch RV-6 on a warm day will quickly let you know why you really need 180hp and a CS prop. Been there, done that, and have the brown striped skivvies to show for it!
Operating from flatlands airports, and 160hp, FP prop does fine however.
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Buggsy2
Pre-Flight
But you're alive, yes? Try this in any certificated aircraft with 160hp and you'd be dead. The point is for the same engine the RVs deliver a lot more flight performance.Taking off from a high elevation airport fully loaded in a 160hp fixed pitch RV-6 on a warm day will quickly let you know why you really need 180hp and a CS prop. Been there, done that, and have the brown striped skivvies to show for it!
Operating from flatlands airports, and 160hp, FP prop does fine however.
I too recommend the OP consider a flying RV. The -4 and -6 models are older and thus sell for cheaper. It's easy enough for an experienced experimental builder, not even an A&P, to see whether it's been built properly or not. A pre-buy inspection is needed for all used aircraft, certificated or experimental.
Find the hotel guy in these forums, Jay Honek, as he bought a used -8 and can give you tips. I'm building a -9A and were I to make that decision now I'd buy used.
A huge benefit to owning an experimental aircraft is the cost of parts and avionics. These are usually a small fraction, 1/3 or 1/4, the price of the equivalent TSO'd parts/avionics.
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150s and 172s fly out of Leadille.
Buggsy2
Pre-Flight
This. The large majority take at least 3-4 years elapsed time. Vans flight performance is accurate but not their build times or costs for what most people want (day/night VFR or IFR, glass panels, injected engine, electronic ignition, etc.).
Buggsy2
Pre-Flight
Not at gross on a warm day with a stock engine they don't (Leadville, CO I assume you mean).
yakdriver
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yellow peril
Real cost to build any of the new RV kits with a 180hp C/S prop and a decent but not elaborate panel is going to be around $ 80-100,000. You can scrounge around and do a used engine/prop and minimal gauges for maybe $10 - 15000 less. As for time to build I am a very experienced builder with all the tools at hand and it took me 1400 hrs to do my RV-7 with no paint. I worked on it about 100hrs a month and got it done in 15 months. Cost me right at $75000 with an overhauled IO-360, new C/S prop and Dynon glass panel in 2008. Prices are considerably higher now. If you want an RV go out and buy one. There are usually a few nice ones for sale at any given time. They are great airplanes. Don
Bill Watson
En-Route
I built and fly an RV10 that barely needs me aboard to complete a soupy 600 mile cross country. Great airplane design combined with a big new Lyc and half priced experimental avionics from 5 or 6 years ago.
Vans take a minimalist and VFR oriented approach to presenting their aircraft. Do it their way and you will be VERY happy. Prudent additions and modifications can make one even happier. Some get carried away but that's a choice.
Being able to build and then fly my dream plane was right for me. Buying a used RV can be the sweet spot for many others. You can definitely get more for your money if an RV fits your mission. The savings are not just in acquisition but also in ongoing maintenance, especially if you decide to participate in the process.
Just piling on here but remember; building one and flying one are 2 different things. Doing both things is just one option among several.
Personally, building one helped me ramp down a busy career while creating the perfect flying machine for retirement. Tail kits are pretty cheap and building will keep you off the streets.
colojo
Line Up and Wait
I'm going to chime in for RVs. I bought a gorgeous, beautifully built and equipped RV-8 last year and fly it at least 2-3 times a week, mostly just playing around in the local area. Flying that plane is the most fun I've had with my clothes on in a long time. My mission is just me, day VFR, relatively short flights, but it is definitely a good traveling machine for two people and a small amount of baggage. I know Jay Honeck and his wife have flown their RV-8A on some fairly long trips.
The Vans concept of "total performance" is the real deal. These planes are fast, economical and can even do acro if you're into that. I never intended to build, but if you're patient you can find a good example of the one you want to buy. I spent over a year looking at 8s before finding mine, and it was worth the wait.
The Vans concept of "total performance" is the real deal. These planes are fast, economical and can even do acro if you're into that. I never intended to build, but if you're patient you can find a good example of the one you want to buy. I spent over a year looking at 8s before finding mine, and it was worth the wait.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
I wouldn't say that. It is quick, but it's easy enough to stay ahead of.
The pitch sensitivity is what will kill you. I've never experienced anything like it ever before. Insane is about the only word.
The one time I flew the SX-300, I looked down, and back up -- and was off my altitude by 400'.
Yeah, it's pitch sensitive!
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
We've flown our RV-8A everywhere since we bought it 16 months ago. It is fast, nimble, responsive, comfortable, aerobatic, and inexpensive to operate. Absolutely no complaints.