Two Lessons complete, 3 hours logged

[motospeed9058]

So far, things have been relatively calm and lots of fun. We have worked through take-offs, radio communications, and power on/off stalls, and slow flight, though for some reason, I feel as though the slow flight and the power off stalls were combined into the same excercise to show how one can move to the other in the blink of an eye. Next up, more power on/off stalls, sharp steep turns and landings. Having a blast so far!

On a side note, my instructor "commented" that I have the opposite effect of most students. Most are afraid to turn, me ...............she told me to stop doing 45 degree turns as clearing turns. I guess most students have problems turning, and I have no problem, or should I say, am very comfortable "leaning" into a turn. Guessin the sharp steep turns portion of our next lesson will be no problem what so ever. Just a guess though.

 

[Henning]

So far, things have been relatively calm and lots of fun. We have worked through take-offs, radio communications, and power on/off stalls, and slow flight, though for some reason, I feel as though the slow flight and the power off stalls were combined into the same excercise to show how one can move to the other in the blink of an eye. Next up, more power on/off stalls, steep turns and landings. Having a blast so far!

On a side note, my instructor "commented" that I have the opposite effect of most students. Most are afraid to turn, me ...............she told me to stop doing 45 degree turns as clearing turns. I guess most students have problems turning, and I have no problem, or should I say, am very comfortable "leaning" into a turn. Guessin the steep turns portion of our next lesson will be no problem what so ever. Just a guess though.

FTFY. Steep turns are probably not going to be a problem, no. Always try to use the proper word for the proper thought in aviation. Later on it will become more critical to always use standard phraseology.

 

[motospeed9058]

FTFY. Steep turns are probably not going to be a problem, no. Always try to use the proper word for the proper thought in aviation. Later on it will become more critical to always use standard phraseology.

Sorry 'bout that. Corrected!

 

[AggieMike88]

Terminology aside, it is good to hear about your progress.

Something easy to add on your own (and likely your instructor is going to ask for it anyhow) is maintaining altitude during your turns. Recall in your reading that as the aircraft banks, some of the vertical lift is lost as the banked wing now generates a "horizontal lift" component. Loss of vertical lift means you will descend unless you inut the proper correction (slight pull on the yoke or stick).

Best way I was taught about maintaining altitude during turns was to always keep the end of the spinner on the horizon. As you roll into and out of turns, and hold the turn, keep the spinner on that horizon.

This method serves to establish keeping your eyes outside of the cockpit and maintain positive attidue control. If you see the spinner rising above the horizon, ease off of the yoke a small amount until it's back on. If you see the spinner falling below the orizon, ease back on the yoke a small amount until it's back on. "Small and Smooth" my intructor used to say.

Do practice holding altitude in turns and you're sure to continue to demonstrate progress to your instructor.

 

[motospeed9058]

Terminology aside, it is good to hear about your progress.

Something easy to add on your own (and likely your instructor is going to ask for it anyhow) is maintaining altitude during your turns. Recall in your reading that as the aircraft banks, some of the vertical lift is lost as the banked wing now generates a "horizontal lift" component. Loss of vertical lift means you will descend unless you inut the proper correction (slight pull on the yoke or stick).

Best way I was taught about maintaining altitude during turns was to always keep the end of the spinner on the horizon. As you roll into and out of turns, and hold the turn, keep the spinner on that horizon.

This method serves to establish keeping your eyes outside of the cockpit and maintain positive attidue control. If you see the spinner rising above the horizon, ease off of the yoke a small amount until it's back on. If you see the spinner falling below the orizon, ease back on the yoke a small amount until it's back on. "Small and Smooth" my intructor used to say.

Do practice holding altitude in turns and you're sure to continue to demonstrate progress to your instructor.

Actually, thanks to my self-study ground school videos, I've been working on that the whole time. I have certain points on the aircraft and the horizon to make sure that my altitude remains constant. Thanks for the reminder though. I think during my next lesson, I will ask the CFI to specifically pay attention to that to make sure she knows that I'm working on that already and offer any criticism or praise as necessary.

 

[Henning]

Actually, thanks to my self-study ground school videos, I've been working on that the whole time. I have certain points on the aircraft and the horizon to make sure that my altitude remains constant. Thanks for the reminder though. I think during my next lesson, I will ask the CFI to specifically pay attention to that to make sure she knows that I'm working on that already and offer any criticism or praise as necessary.

Another good bank and pull reference is jaw tension. I think every training aircraft should have an accelerometer, really every plane should. You will be taught a 45* bank steep turn. When you can demonstrate that to proficiency, and I suspect that will take 2 laps left and right to establish, tell the instructor you want to do "Real" steep turns at 60* now". I never understood why they slacked the standard. 60* is a 2G turn. You need to know 2G well. Actually, you need to know 3G well. A Normal Category aircraft is stressed to operate at or below 3.8G so you need to know 3G. Problem is most instructors aren't comfortable there and you need to find someone who teaches in a Citabria or similar.

A 60* bank turn will teach you 2G though and every instructor should be more than willing and capable of that. 60* was the standard forever until the Great Pussification of America happened.

 

[saracelica]

Don't look to your CFI for the praise. She probably expects you to maintain altitude. It's one less thing for her to reteach you.

 

[AggieMike88]

Don't look to your CFI for the praise.

There is one way of gaining "praise" from your instructor.

An objective as the lessons progress is to cause the CFI to become more and more of a silent passenger.

I knew I was getting it right when I hadn't heard anything from him for a few minutes and snuck a glance to see if he had fallen asleep or something. He was just sitting there, with his arms cross and relaxed, and a slight grin on his face as he enjoyed the flight.

 

[motospeed9058]

I knew I was getting it right when I hadn't heard anything from him for a few minutes and snuck a glance to see if he had fallen asleep or something. He was just sitting there, with his arms cross and relaxed, and a slight grin on his face as he enjoyed the flight.

Ok, maybe the word "praise" was a bad choice; however, my CFI has so far, been very complimentary when actions are completed with little to no effort, or was completed in a competent manner. I get what you guys are saying though.

Again, thank you all for the tips!

 

[nosehair]

Another good bank and pull reference is jaw tension.

Heh, yer gettin too much tailwheel time, greaser. Ease off.:wink2:

 

[AggieMike88]

Heh, yer gettin too much tailwheel time, greaser. Ease off.:wink2:

Or just use the trim wheel located behind your left ear.

 

[denverpilot]

Agreed that Instructors don't give praise. They just shut-up when you're doing it right. Or they reach over and pull the throttle out.

Or they offer up the "Okay, if you can hold altitude to 50' you can hold it to 20'!"

They're always trying to make you a better pilot. That's a good thing.

 

[Jaybird180]

AggieMike and Nosehair: Is this some kind of innuendo that we aren't supposed to know about?

To Motospeed: I can relate to your comfort with bank angles, I had the same problem for presumably the same reason as you. Just remember to keep the bank angles below 30deg in the pattern, keep the turns well coordinated at all times and keep an eye on maneuvering speed (Va). Later in your flying these things will become more important.

 

[Henning]

AggieMike and Nosehair: Is this some kind of innuendo that we aren't supposed to know about?

To Motospeed: I can relate to your comfort with bank angles, I had the same problem for presumably the same reason as you. Just remember to keep the bank angles below 30deg in the pattern, keep the turns well coordinated at all times and keep an eye on maneuvering speed (Va). Later in your flying these things will become more important.

Why? Most likely if I need to turn that tight I also have to descend so pulling 1.5G-1.75G in a 60* bank is a great way to make a tight turn and lose altitude and without gaining a bunch of energy/speed while not resorting to uncoordinated flight.

The WORST thing you can do is limit your bank angle to 30* and then tighten the turn with more rudder.

Angle of bank doesn't really matter to an airplane. It's the load factor typically associated with those banks that causes the accelerated stall problems at low speed. If you don't need to pull full value and want to give up altitude and pull the same value as for a 30* bank turn there is no added risk from the extra bank, it just lets me get rid of more altitude for the same forward progress. I can roll 60* in the pattern perfectly safely and legally as long as I have the altitude I need to get rid of. It would be much safer than skidding and slipping all over trying to make a turn limited to 30* bank and then getting down rapidly.

 

[Jaybird180]

YOU might be able to do it but keep in mind the high number of skidded turns in the pattern that become accelerated stall accidents.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

YOU might be able to do it but keep in mind the high number of skidded turns in the pattern that become accelerated stall accidents.

Which is why you want to bank and let the nose drop instead of skidding.

To avoid stalls: watch the backpressure - not the bank.

And, another simple solution is a "button hook" base to final transition. Lose a couple style points. Reduce the risk of killing yourself.

 

[Henning]

YOU might be able to do it but keep in mind the high number of skidded turns in the pattern that become accelerated stall accidents.

???? Did you not read what I wrote? That is exactly my point. Getting the wing down is safer than skidding the turn.

 

[Henning]

Which is why you want to bank and let the nose drop instead of skidding.

To avoid stalls: watch the backpressure - not the bank.

And, another simple solution is a "button hook" base to final transition. Lose a couple style points. Reduce the risk of killing yourself.

Yep, but it's really bad etiquette when there are parallel runways working.

 

[Henning]

YOU might be able to do it but keep in mind the high number of skidded turns in the pattern that become accelerated stall accidents.

BTW, there is nothing I can do with a plane that is not available to everyone. I have no special codicil to the Laws of Physics....

 

[motospeed9058]

The WORST thing you can do is limit your bank angle to 30* and then tighten the turn with more rudder.

Angle of bank doesn't really matter to an airplane. It's the load factor typically associated with those banks that causes the accelerated stall problems at low speed. If you don't need to pull full value and want to give up altitude and pull the same value as for a 30* bank turn there is no added risk from the extra bank, it just lets me get rid of more altitude for the same forward progress. I can roll 60* in the pattern perfectly safely and legally as long as I have the altitude I need to get rid of. It would be much safer than skidding and slipping all over trying to make a turn limited to 30* bank and then getting down rapidly.

The instructor (keeping in mind that this is lesson 2 for a new student pilot) didn't focus on the physics of the load factor of the aircraft when she stated that it was more widely accepted at that field and curteous at other fields to keep to no more than 30 degrees of bank "if possible." Now, that's not saying that you aren't right in that if you have to do something different to "fly the airplane" and adjust accordingly, then so be it. I think this was just meant as more of a courtesy and commonality then it was a "rule of thumb."

 

[cleared4theoption]

I remember on a few occasions when turning base to final I had overshot the centerline....I NEVER tightened up the turn or got uncoordinated trying to get back on centerline...I would level the wings, get under control and gently bank the plane to get back on the centerline, knowing I had plenty of distance and altitude to get the plane lined back up before touchdown...didn't look as pretty, but kep tmy instructor's pucker factor to a minimum.

 

[denverpilot]

Add another parallel runway (75' apart) and people do really dangerous/stupid stuff to not overshoot.