Twin down at Palwaukee

mikea

mikea

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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iWin
Cessna 421 had just departed the Prospect Heights airfield about noon and was about 10 minutes into its flight when its pilot radioed that his left engine was leaking oil, and he was returning to the airport, Wheeling Fire Chief Keith MacIsaac said.

The pilot attempted to land at the airport, but the propeller-driven plane's left engine failed, and the aircraft overshot a runway, MacIsaac said. The craft came down in an industrial park northwest of Hintz and Wolf Roads, about a half-mile away from the northwest corner of the airport.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050805plane,1,7189326.story?coll=chi-news-hed Free registration required.
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I'm glad both onboard survived.

C'mon guys ya gots TWO of dem engines.

I'm out there currently. I might see this crash site when I get go by on the the train in an hour or so. It sounds like its just north of the airport fence.

Airplanes keep falling on our heads.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Overshoots are pretty common on SE approaches. This is one area in which realistic sims would do a world of good.
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You're darn tootin! There is certainly not a surfeit of OEI practice on actual rwys.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Overshoots are pretty common on SE approaches. This is one area in which realistic sims would do a world of good.
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Why is that? You have to maintain a higher airspeed throughout due to Vme(?) (Dunno offhand exactly what it's called. I know what it means. You need enough airspeed to have enough rudder authority to overcome the yaw into the dead engine.)
 
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I'll chime in with my expertise backed by all of my 0.7 of multi time....lol

In Dr Bruce's Seneca we rotated at 80 knots. Blue line was 105. Using the rule of thumb of rotate speed =approx= approach speed (give or take a few percent) and blue line is 25 faster, you're probably carrying quite a bit extra speed, and are going to need about 70% more runway distance to stop.

I think it's Vmc or Vsse (Minimum Control / Safe Single Engine)
 
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mikea said:
Why is that? You have to maintain a higher airspeed throughout due to Vme(?) (Dunno offhand exactly what's called. I know what it means. You need enough airspeed to have enough rudder authority to overcome the yaw into the dead engine.)
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This is not a Vmc issue; it's primarily psychological. (Remember that with the good engine at low power settings you're not getting the yaw you would have with the good engine at max power.) Someone with a lot of experience teaching ME is better equipped to explain the why's, I'm just reporting what the record shows.
 
Seems to me, when the twin guys lose engines, they do come in a little high and fast. The incident here at McAllister showed that. We just don't know what exactly is going on in the cockpit, but I can see how one would stay a little high and fast just as in a single to be sure they make the runway. Then, when they do, they have to throw out the anchor to stop. If it's not a real long runway, it doesn't work out.

One should stay at blue line untill committed, then reduce speed below the best climb rate. When we practice them, we almost make a normal approach; just a little more yaw until you begin reducing power. In my mind, I would try to stay right on a normal approach if possible. Perhaps some think if they've lost one (and don't know why) they may lose the other.

In the above case (Mc Allister), the pilot came in high and hot on a hot day with the plane over gross. Then, thied to go around. It sounded as if he was actually doing O.K. until he began a turn while low.

Who knows, there may have been something else going on; at the least, the pilot may have been distracted enough to come in high and hot. Perhaps the dead engine wouldn't feather.

Sure is not what I've been taught or what I'm comfortable with!! Usually, this is a pilot judgement issue.

Best,

Dave
 
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According to the airman database the pilot of the 421 had recieved his IR on 3/2/05 and does not have his ME. The database might be behind and he might have recently earned his ME. Either way bad deal, and I'm glad everyone survived.
 
Ken Ibold said:
This is not a Vmc issue; it's primarily psychological. (Remember that with the good engine at low power settings you're not getting the yaw you would have with the good engine at max power.) Someone with a lot of experience teaching ME is better equipped to explain the why's, I'm just reporting what the record shows.
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With one feathered, the drag is noticeably less than normal (especially on the ground) although it isn't difficult to compensate for this. I wonder if they forgot to put the gear down in the excitement, that would mean a lot less drag. OTOH the main runway at PWK has plenty of extra room for a 421 coming in a little hot.
 
James_Dean said:
According to the airman database the pilot of the 421 had recieved his IR on 3/2/05 and does not have his ME. The database might be behind and he might have recently earned his ME. Either way bad deal, and I'm glad everyone survived.
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Recently earned ME + 421 = trouble, most likely. And probably no insurance either.
 
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