Twin comanche crashes near Gettysburg last week

Cousin saw me online after reading. Begged that I be very anal about preflights. Told him I am and that I don't take chances. He is going through a lot. How does one respond? I am at a loss for words and some of you know I am very opinionated.
 
asgcpa said:
Cousin saw me online after reading. Begged that I be very anal about preflights. Told him I am and that I don't take chances. He is going through a lot. How does one respond? I am at a loss for words and some of you know I am very opinionated.
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"Do you pre-drive your car every time you drive it?"
 
EdFred said:
"Do you pre-drive your car every time you drive it?"
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Well a car does not have as many life or death components as a typical plane I would assume. You run out of gas and you pull over, flat tire and you pull over. Pretty simple, but I would think most people will visually inspect (without knowing it) the tires and general condition of their vehichle before they even get in it.

Others just hop right in, but in an aircraft obviously this isnt the best way. I get that your question was pretty much a jab, but honestly the risk of not pre-driving you car is way less then not pre-flighting your plane.

I assume that I shouldnt have to defend that point?
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Well a car does not have as many life or death components as a typical plane I would assume. You run out of gas and you pull over, flat tire and you pull over. Pretty simple, but I would think most people will visually inspect (without knowing it) the tires and general condition of their vehichle before they even get in it.

Others just hop right in, but in an aircraft obviously this isnt the best way. I get that your question was pretty much a jab, but honestly the risk of not pre-driving you car is way less then not pre-flighting your plane.

I assume that I shouldnt have to defend that point?
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I watch people preflight, most go through a ritual for ritual's sake without even understanding what they are looking for or assuring what they are looking at is correct. It's extremely rare that I see someone actually grab something and make sure it's secure. Most people could skip preflighting the plane altogether and it wouldn't make a difference.
 
I assume that I shouldnt have to defend that point?[/QUOTE]

Of course not. Pre flights are important. There is not much to say to your cousin. General aviation is risky, as are many activities. Just assure your cousin that you take the safety precautions you were taught and that you try to stay proficient and let it go at that. Bad things happen.
 
Henning said:
I watch people preflight, most go through a ritual for ritual's sake without even understanding what they are looking for or assuring what they are looking at is correct. It's extremely rare that I see someone actually grab something and make sure it's secure. Most people could skip preflighting the plane altogether and it wouldn't make a difference.
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You know its funny you say that Henning, my CFI flew one of his buddys Mooney's to my airport so we could get me current and after we were done and I helped him pull his plane out he was doing a preflight and was really pulling/tugging on the control surfaces and I was just thinking he should be more gentle, but I guess your right as far as pulling on stuff I dont do that but I do make sure the piano wires/screws/bolts are all secure.

Makes sense why he was pulling on it, I guess I have just made it up in my mind that planes (bc they are so light) are like babies and can be very fragile (as shown by my fear of turbulence)...... Starting to learn though.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
You know its funny you say that Henning, my CFI flew one of his buddys Mooney's to my airport so we could get me current and after we were done and I helped him pull his plane out he was doing a preflight and was really pulling/tugging on the control surfaces and I was just thinking he should be more gentle, but I guess your right as far as pulling on stuff I dont do that but I do make sure the piano wires/screws/bolts are all secure.

Makes sense why he was pulling on it, I guess I have just made it up in my mind that planes (bc they are so light) are like babies and can be very fragile (as shown by my fear of turbulence)...... Starting to learn though.
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Here's a preflight question for you, how much play is within tolerance on your trim tab?
 
Henning said:
Here's a preflight question for you, how much play is within tolerance on your trim tab?
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Every cessna I've flown has the trim tab +/- an inch. I would say this is an acceptable range.
 
Henning said:
Here's a preflight question for you, how much play is within tolerance on your trim tab?
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Im of the understanding that you aren't to push or pull on the trim, So I honestly wouldnt know. But when I move the elevator the trim always moves in the opposite direction so that gets a PASS from me at that point in time.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Im of the understanding that you aren't to push or pull on the trim, So I honestly wouldnt know. But when I move the elevator the trim always moves in the opposite direction so that gets a PASS from me at that point in time.
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My point exactly, the most hazardous item plane and it goes uninspected.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Well a car does not have as many life or death components as a typical plane I would assume. You run out of gas and you pull over, flat tire and you pull over. Pretty simple, but I would think most people will visually inspect (without knowing it) the tires and general condition of their vehichle before they even get in it.

Others just hop right in, but in an aircraft obviously this isnt the best way. I get that your question was pretty much a jab, but honestly the risk of not pre-driving you car is way less then not pre-flighting your plane.

I assume that I shouldnt have to defend that point?
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I would argue both planes and car have the exact same number of life and death components...1 person. I feel safer in the air sometimes. Less people up there! Sh-t happens, regardless of steps taken to prevent accidents. But you are right that just jumping into a car without inspection doesn't carry the same weight as jumping into a plane without an inspection.
 
So Sad.

Sorry for your Cousin and the families of all involved.

asgcpa said:
Cousin saw me online after reading. Begged that I be very anal about preflights. Told him I am and that I don't take chances. He is going through a lot. How does one respond? I am at a loss for words and some of you know I am very opinionated.
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Jhernandez04 said:
Well a car does not have as many life or death components as a typical plane I would assume. You run out of gas and you pull over, flat tire and you pull over. Pretty simple, but I would think most people will visually inspect (without knowing it) the tires and general condition of their vehichle before they even get in it.

Others just hop right in, but in an aircraft obviously this isnt the best way. I get that your question was pretty much a jab, but honestly the risk of not pre-driving you car is way less then not pre-flighting your plane.

I assume that I shouldnt have to defend that point?
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99.99% of non-pilots are ignorant when it comes to what a pre-flight inspection consists or doesn't consist of. The comment of them inspecting their car before every drive is just to shut them up. Just like when they ask if I have to get permission to go fly somewhere and get lunch. "Do you get permission to go get lunch?"
 
Jhernandez04 said:
But it says "Do Not Push"?
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Not trying to single you out or pick on you (you are likely not the only person who thinks that way), but this response frightens me....and represents exactly the problem that Henning is talking about.
 
JB1842 said:
I would argue both planes and car have the exact same number of life and death components...1 person. I feel safer in the air sometimes. Less people up there! Sh-t happens, regardless of steps taken to prevent accidents. But you are right that just jumping into a car without inspection doesn't carry the same weight as jumping into a plane without an inspection.
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Sure it does, 99.99% of the time nothing will happen, .01% of the time an accident will happen, and in some percentage of those a death will occur.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
CFI flew one of his buddys Mooney's to my airport so we could get me current and after we were done and I helped him pull his plane out he was doing a preflight and was really pulling/tugging on the control surfaces and I was just thinking he should be more gentle, but I guess your right as far as pulling on stuff I dont do that but I do make sure the piano wires/screws/bolts are all secure.
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Ask him to give you a refresher lesson on a thorough preflight. What he is doing is moving all of the control surfaces by hand through their entire range of travel, making sure they are smooth, and they hit a solid stop at each end of the range of travel. A good thing to do on preflight.

On a PA-28 I stand behind the elevator, grab the tab between my thumb and index finger and move the entire assembly through its range of travel. When you move the elevator up (yoke full back) visually inspect the tab pushrod that goes into the butt hole of the aircraft (for lack of better term :goofy:) and look at the bolt and lock nut.
 
dell30rb said:
Ask him to give you a refresher lesson on a thorough preflight. What he is doing is moving all of the control surfaces by hand through their entire range of travel, making sure they are smooth, and they hit a solid stop at each end of the range of travel. A good thing to do on preflight.

On a PA-28 I stand behind the elevator, grab the tab between my thumb and index finger and move the entire assembly through its range of travel. When you move the elevator up (yoke full back) visually inspect the tab pushrod that goes into the butt hole of the aircraft (for lack of better term :goofy:) and look at the bolt and lock nut.
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Had a CFI specifically point out the connection of the stabilator to the push rod on the PA28, saying that little bolt is all that stands between you and a really bad time. I always check it now. Same CFI was the one who suggested to me how each push rod should look, but also make sure to feel them, there should be a little bit of play, but not loose.
 
Henning said:
Sure it does, 99.99% of the time nothing will happen, .01% of the time an accident will happen, and in some percentage of those a death will occur.
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But if the engine quits in your car, you pull over to the side of the road and you hope nobody behinds you slams into you. In a plane, you have to make sure you have a good place to put down. And if you run out of gas in your car, in most places in the U.S. you aren't too far from a gas station. If you run out of gas in a plane, your choices are more limited.
 
Henning said:
Sure it does, 99.99% of the time nothing will happen, .01% of the time an accident will happen, and in some percentage of those a death will occur.
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Right, except that the percentages are higher with airplanes. That's why it carries more weight.
 
asgcpa said:
Cousin saw me online after reading. Begged that I be very anal about preflights. Told him I am and that I don't take chances. He is going through a lot. How does one respond? I am at a loss for words and some of you know I am very opinionated.
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Sorry for you and your cousins loss....:sad::sad:..

now... after 30 posts on this thread about preflight... Why did your cousin say that ? Does he think the plane broke ? pilot error?...:confused::confused:
 
Total speculation on part, but I live 30 or so miles from Gettysburg. I recall weather was not as good as forecast, snow showers, bkn 025-035. Just above freezing on the ground. Grey, wet looking clouds. Perfect weather for ice, especially in the valleys. I was going to do some ifr currency work, and decided against. Could be he left early to beat weather...

Tragic loss.
 
JB1842 said:
But if the engine quits in your car, you pull over to the side of the road and you hope nobody behinds you slams into you. In a plane, you have to make sure you have a good place to put down. And if you run out of gas in your car, in most places in the U.S. you aren't too far from a gas station. If you run out of gas in a plane, your choices are more limited.
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Outside of checking gas and oil, what part of a typical preflight prevents an engine failure? The magnetos could be about to fall off the engine for all most people know and the head could be split halfway off the cylinder. Oil hoses could be chafing away and ready to blow out and people would have no clue it's ready to go.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Total speculation on part, but I live 30 or so miles from Gettysburg. I recall weather was not as good as forecast, snow showers, bkn 025-035. Just above freezing on the ground. Grey, wet looking clouds. Perfect weather for ice, especially in the valleys. I was going to do some ifr currency work, and decided against. Could be he left early to beat weather...

Tragic loss.
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My first suspicion was this was an icing related accident as well.
 
Recent king air 200 accident indicates the pilot probably would not have killed himself and others if he had done the prescribed preflight correctly. ( sumps) I think it's pretty easy to look this type of thing up. The analogy of an airplane to a car is just wasting time and space.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Recent king air 200 accident indicates the pilot probably would not have killed himself and others if he had done the prescribed preflight correctly. ( sumps) I think it's pretty easy to look this type of thing up. The analogy of an airplane to a car is just wasting time and space.
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What does a BE200 accident have to do with a PA30?
 
Henning said:
You should make sure every time, especially with a flying tail design.
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After checking the elevators on the Mooney I reach under the tail and give it a solid pull or two, checking the free play on the tail. I assume there's a jack screw in there, and I like to make sure everything feels correct.

I've had to tighten spinner screws pre-flight, don't just look at them, run your hand over them. If one is loose you'll both feel and hear it.

I always give the landing gear doors a shake....etc. etc.
 
Henning said:
Outside of checking gas and oil, what part of a typical preflight prevents an engine failure? The magnetos could be about to fall off the engine for all most people know and the head could be split halfway off the cylinder. Oil hoses could be chafing away and ready to blow out and people would have no clue it's ready to go.
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You can catch a lot of things that would cause an engine failure without removing the cowl. Birds nest is one.
 
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