superdad
Pre-takeoff checklist
Anyone know where I can get the TW endorsement in or around Nebraska? I have did a google search but came up with nothing, Also do you think it would be a good endorsement to get if I don't have access to a TW?
TW endorsement help
- Thread starter superdad
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nosehair
Cleared for Takeoff
Then why do you want to get it?
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
Chicks dig TW pilots.
hook_dupin
Pre-takeoff checklist
Why don't you want to get it?
Silvaire
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Silvaire
Probably. I don't have one because there never used to be such a thing but since there is now you may as well get it out of the way. Acquiring it is almost guaranteed to be an enjoyable experience even if you never use it again.
I didn't want to get mine. I have no use for it. However my fiancé loves to rent a Supercub on occasion and one of the arguably best tailwheel schools in the country is where I did all my other ratings.
I'm about 3 lessons away from the endorsement and it's been a total blast. And it's made me a better cfi, and Skylane pilot.
I'm about 3 lessons away from the endorsement and it's been a total blast. And it's made me a better cfi, and Skylane pilot.
NoHeat
En-Route
I would be surprised if nothing is available in Nebraska, but one state to your east, in Iowa, there are several places. Here are two:
A club near Cedar Rapids, with an Aeronca Chief and instructors, where I am learning:
http://www.greencastleaeroclub.com
It is not costly to join for a while and we would be happy to have you.
An FBO in Pella with a rental cub and CFI
flyclassicaviation.com
You could ask whether the CFI can concentrate the lessons into a few days. I think insurance requires a certain number of hours of dual instruction before you can solo.
jnmeade
Cleared for Takeoff
I would not recommend spending the money unless you have a need for the endorsement. Spend it on more training that makes you better flying what you do fly.
The only reason to get the endorsement if you don't have access to a TW is to learn TW ground handling skills. Many will let you fly their TW in the air but not operate on the ground. I don't think learning the ground handling skills is enough value if you can't apply them regularly.
There is a soaring club listed in Blair. Maybe you can get some TW glider time or even ride in the tow plane if it is TW.
http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFly
The only reason to get the endorsement if you don't have access to a TW is to learn TW ground handling skills. Many will let you fly their TW in the air but not operate on the ground. I don't think learning the ground handling skills is enough value if you can't apply them regularly.
There is a soaring club listed in Blair. Maybe you can get some TW glider time or even ride in the tow plane if it is TW.
http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFly
Tom-D
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When you don't have a T/D to stay current and proficient in, I'd not advise getting it.
txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
If you're not going to fly a TW ever again, I can't see the use in it, but it will make you a better pilot ... for a little while. :wink2:
dillardrg
Pre-takeoff checklist
This is exactly why a Tailwheel Training is worth the investment. It will "make you better flying what you do fly".
The big push with the FAA Safety folks now is Loss Of Control accidents. These mostly stem from poor stick and rudder skills.
Almost everyone I train comments on how their stick and rudder skills have improved in what ever they normally fly(this applies to brand new PPLs and ATPs with 10s of thousands of hours).
It could be argued that flying a trike to the same discipline standards that are required in a Conventional Gear aircraft would result in the same improvement in S&R skills. The problem is that there is no real feedback in a trike to show when you do something sloppy.
It is not just the ground handling portion of the flight that is improved, but takeoffs and landing routinely improve in whatever you fly because of the extra discipline required in a Tailwheel AC, especially attitude control and airspeed control.
If you routinely fly a Conventional Gear AC chances are you don't understand how flying a trike promotes bad discipline habits. If you routinely fly a trike chances are good you have developed some bad habits. I know this is a generalization, but this is what I have observed in the pilots with whom I fly.
superdad
Pre-takeoff checklist
I didn't say I would NEVER use it again. I would love to buy a 140 or 170 at some point down the road. But again at the cost of 2k plus I could put that towards my plane fund and then buy one and train in it.
superdad
Pre-takeoff checklist
Thanks for the link and info.
PilotRPI
Line Up and Wait
Even if you never flew a TW again, I felt it was worth it. Made me a MUCH better pilot in a 172 with crosswinds. I landed one day in 10G20 direct crosswind, and it was a total non-event.
Even better was when crosswinds really clicked in the Citabria at about 40-50 hours.
Even better was when crosswinds really clicked in the Citabria at about 40-50 hours.
dlsmith
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I know I saw a huge improvement in my airspeed control when I started flying tailwheel, and I figured out what my feet are for. It teaches you to truly utilize all flight controls, and learn how they all can interact.
I still have to come up and visit Ron, I trust you got moved in okay at Lebanon?
Mostly people don't get it because they have limited resources to allocate to flying, and would rather spend those resources flying their family or friends somewhere than earning an endorsement that doesn't serve them any value.
I know I saw a huge improvement in my airspeed control when I started flying tailwheel, and I figured out what my feet are for. It teaches you to truly utilize all flight controls, and learn how they all can interact.
I still have to come up and visit Ron, I trust you got moved in okay at Lebanon?
You don't need a Tailwheel plane for either of those. In flight there is no difference. Having a tailwheel does nothing to magically impart this wisdom upon you.
All a Tailwheel does is introduces more risk that you have to manage, that's all.
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Jimmy cooper
En-Route
I know I saw a huge improvement in my airspeed control when I started flying tailwheel, and I figured out what my feet are for. It teaches you to truly utilize all flight controls, and learn how they all can interact.
I still have to come up and visit Ron, I trust you got moved in okay at Lebanon?
And you are absolutely correct. If you can fly the Luscombe E in most kinds of situations your skill in flying a tri gear is much enhanced. This is true of any light tw aircrft one might chose to practice and become skilled flying. Recovering from a stall, spin, unusual attitudes, etc. Are really an important part of flying. Easily taught in a plane like this. I've seen mentioned here that the Luscombe or say the 140 is " squirrley" on landing, etc. Very true if you can't fly one correctly. If you can, they are easy to fly.
Silvaire
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Yikes, if it's gonna cost you two grand to get a TW endorsement then I'd say forego it until the time you need it. I spent about $1200 to get a seaplane rating even though I knew I had no seaplane to rent or use afterwards but on top of being a lot of fun it was a new rating so it took care of my BFR and I got a brand new card to replace the beat up one I had in my wallet. So by applying special pilot's economic logic it made sense at the time.
nosehair
Cleared for Takeoff
Well, I won't go that far, but I will say you can learn a whole lot about rudder, aileron, & elevator control during the takeoff and landing roll by taking a Cessna 152 down the runway like this: Find a sleepy little airport with no traffic.
Keeping the airplane precisely over centerline, ease in just enough power to raise the nosewheel to establish a tailwheel attitude and high speed taxi down the centerline.
You will need good rudder control to keep the nose pointed straight, good elevator control to keep the nose raised to the right attitude, and aileron control to keep from drifting off centerline. Very similar to tailwheel control.
Even if you are going to rent a tailwheel, this is a good prep exercise to save an hour or two in the t/w checkout.
If you're going to be flying a tailwheel plane, then get the endorsement, until then, just practice slow flight with the stall horn screaming at you. Climb, sink, turn, all of it with the horn screaming, and when the engine starts to get hot, pull the throttle and do a 3000' falling leaf stall. Do that for an hour in whatever the hell it is you fly, and you will know everything there is to know about using the rudder there is, plus you will have gained knowledge and experience with the bottom of the operating envelope of THE PLANE YOU FLY. Learning obscure techniques in a plane you will never fly is a poor use of your aviation resources. Train in the plane you fly and train hard in it, that is how you pull it out of your ass when you have to.
nosehair
Cleared for Takeoff
All very good control maneuvers, but still cannot produce the level of accurate instinctive control touch and responses required to stay on centerline.
Obscure?
dillardrg
Pre-takeoff checklist
If you can keep the wings +/-5° in a falling leaf, you have all the rudder skills to make the plane do whatever you'll ever need.
The notion that the tailwheel teaches you anything is absurd. All it points out is how crappy your primary instruction was.
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Stewartb
Final Approach
What motivation does anyone have to criticize a guy for wanting a taildragger endorsement? If you want it, go get it. Get a seaplane rating, too, if it makes you happy. Why wouldn't you want to be the best, most rounded pilot you can be?
dlsmith
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I agree and disagree with you. I do think those skills can be learned in a Tri gear airplane, through the methods you mentioned.
BUT, I think a taildragger makes the effects of proper technique much more pronounced. It makes it easier for a pilot to see the flaws in their technique due to the more pronounced ground handling and how the proper techniques effect an airplane. A taildragger doesn't cover up sloppy piloting.
If someone has unlimited aviation resources, it's all good. If you don't, then for the same price you can get aerobatic instruction and gain a lot more useful knowledge and skill. You may or may not get a TW in the process.
Please, someone exlplain to me where a tailwheel makes any difference unless you're touching the ground.
I have over 1000hrs with tailwheels including various small and big AG planes, some with over 1000hp, Lot's of pipeline in a PA-12, some Pitts, some Extra, some Citabria/Decathalon, I even have ME tailwheel time....The only times I notice any difference is when the wheels are on the ground, and that's what, 10 seconds out of every flight? Heck, if you're a half assed stable pilot, you can be way sloppy with your energy, because if you have too much, no worries, make a wheel landing and drive it on.
Swampfox201
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Todd W.
Last I checked John Armatys at the central city ne airport gives tw instruction
dlsmith
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Please, someone exlplain to me where a tailwheel makes any difference unless you're touching the ground.
The only times I notice any difference is when the wheels are on the ground, and that's what, 10 seconds out of every flight? Heck, if you're a half assed stable pilot, you can be way sloppy with your energy, because if you have too much, no worries, make a wheel landing and drive it on.
You can to a certain extent, but too much excess speed and you bounce in a wheel landing. Not the proper landing attitude? You bounce at best. And you still can't be sloppy on the rudder
stswick
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As an owner of a 172 I have to say that learning in a tailwheel has greatly helped my understanding of the flight controls as well as my overall awareness in the aircraft. In my 172 I can get away with a lot without realizing it, but in the Luscombe I am learning it can be much more challenging.
I would say go ahead and get your tailwheel endorsement. It is a lot of fun learning to fly ("land") one, and really why not get one?? My goal is to get every endorsement available to me. I love flying and thereby want to experience every type of aircraft there is. Flying multiple types makes you a much better pilot overall rather than just staying in your comfort zone. I love my 172, but I have to say the challenge of a taildragger and that first perfect landing you make is so rewarding. You should always be trying to learn more!
I would say go ahead and get your tailwheel endorsement. It is a lot of fun learning to fly ("land") one, and really why not get one?? My goal is to get every endorsement available to me. I love flying and thereby want to experience every type of aircraft there is. Flying multiple types makes you a much better pilot overall rather than just staying in your comfort zone. I love my 172, but I have to say the challenge of a taildragger and that first perfect landing you make is so rewarding. You should always be trying to learn more!
NoHeat
En-Route
A taildragger instruction event close to Nebraska, at KIIB in Iowa:
Saturday, April 18
Independence Municipal Airport (IIB )
Tailwheel Flying Ground School & Fly-in Breakfast (Free)
8 a.m. – noon
Seminar begins at 10 a.m.
FAAST Wings credit available
Phone: 319-334-4000 (Johnathan Walter/Walter Aviation)
http://www.iowadot.gov/aviation/calendarevents.html
Saturday, April 18
Independence Municipal Airport (IIB )
Tailwheel Flying Ground School & Fly-in Breakfast (Free)
8 a.m. – noon
Seminar begins at 10 a.m.
FAAST Wings credit available
Phone: 319-334-4000 (Johnathan Walter/Walter Aviation)
http://www.iowadot.gov/aviation/calendarevents.html