Turning water into fuel?

It's the solid oxide cell technology, it's the immediate future of energy. The solid oxide fuel cells are already doing the NG to electricity conversion more efficiently than combustion processes, and is available in industrial units. The sooner we start adopting this to industrial scale, the better off we'll all be.
 
Henning will be by to hump your leg in 5,4,3.....:D


More than just a few problems with the reported numbers...3.2 tons of CO2 yielding 1 bbl of liquid hydrocarbon...hmmm.... prolly 6.5 ppg so 273 pounds of product...something is missing like about 1,500 pounds of carbon....and they claimed 70% efficiency - dunno how that would be possible when "misplacing" 80% of one of their input streams...glad I'm not a chemical engineer 'cause these things might bother me...
 
It's not a fuel. It's the chemical equivalent of a battery. It will always take more energy to create than it will produce. Which begs the question, what's the point?
 
It's not a fuel. It's the chemical equivalent of a battery. It will always take more energy to create than it will produce. Which begs the question, what's the point?

The point as (poorly) presented in the article is they want to use wind or solar power to use supposedly abundant resources, namely H2O & CO2, to produce a scarce resource, namely liquid hydrocarbon, which can be utilized in existing equipment/facilities. In other words it is supposedly a way to market CO2. It might be a viable for use of waste heat and CO2 from a fossil fuel fired plant or maybe some large scale acid gas stripping plant. The capital required would probably kill any project on economic terms.

All that said, people/companies are trying to do similar stuff at various scales. Plants are in place but the economics are lousy - regulatory requirements are the drivers right now.
 
It's not a fuel. It's the chemical equivalent of a battery. It will always take more energy to create than it will produce. Which begs the question, what's the point?

The point is they can reverse the petroleum->electricity process and go electricity->petroleum. The point is it is possible to make jet fuel from electricity and water. Fossil petroleum is not free to produce either, it is a long, expensive, and energy intensive process to get from underground to the point of consumption. It's a matter of competing costs. Which way cost the least to make the product, and continually exploring, drilling and fracking for new sources of increasing amounts of the fossil petroleum is not an inexpensive process either.

Right now the balance of cost lies securely on the fossil side of the equation, however CFR technology will prove a game changer in those regards. The elements to the viability of the elimination of the fossil fuel industry are coming together. The recent advances in the solid oxide cell processes are what we needed to fulfill our needs for high density fuel like for aviation.

While we need to count on Skunk Works to come through to make this end of the SO technology work for us, the same is not true for the Solid Oxide Fuel Cell processes that work the petroleum->electricity direction. They produce electricity from natural gas/gaseous hydrocarbons more efficiently than combustion processes, and produces enough residual heat and steam that with cogeneration efficiency of around 90% can be had, plus a bunch of heat and water.

The problem with them right now is the lifespan/cost ratio of the stacks, they are lasting about 5 years right now. The main thing required to bring that down is production scale. It's no more of a process than printing T-shirts, the thing is right now we are printing them in in small shops when we need to be printing them in big factories. It's the infrastructure investment we need to make to take us into the future. It's the perfect technology for today because I can be plumbed in to the existing gas infrastructure, that includes taking a tank to off grid properties and getting electricity, water, and heat.

Right now, the technology is efficient at the community and household production scale, what this allows for is to create a parallel construct for the electric grid that allows power to flow into it from both ends. Household and community units can serve for peaking energy, the Australians already have pilot programs with this.

Another thing is these units can efficiently produce hydrogen to fuel PEM cells in cars. SOFC technology doesn't scale to cars yet, but the community scale SOFC location can also provide the community H2 station. It can also be located inside an old industrial building to provide the heat and water for hydroponic agriculture to provide jobs and opportunity in those communities.
 
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Henning- you ever notice that in the Star Trek universe they always seem to reroute power from some other system to a critical one (usually engines, weapons, shields, life support)....do you really think that energy consumption will solve the problems of peace on Earth? If you don't solve the root problem in the human psyche, there will just be something else to fight over.
 
It's the solid oxide cell technology, it's the immediate future of energy. The solid oxide fuel cells are already doing the NG to electricity conversion more efficiently than combustion processes, and is available in industrial units. The sooner we start adopting this to industrial scale, the better off we'll all be.

Dayamn, Henning.

Last week it was Hydrogen. What's it gonna be next week?
 
Solar and wind lack the energy density to produce fuels by this method on a scale large enough to really make a difference. You could use nuclear, but that has its own issues. I don't think this is going to be the answer.
 
Solar and wind lack the energy density to produce fuels by this method on a scale large enough to really make a difference. You could use nuclear, but that has its own issues. I don't think this is going to be the answer.
Perhaps it will be one of the answers.
I can't see any single technology as THE answer, at least for an awfully long time.
 
Dayamn, Henning.

Last week it was Hydrogen. What's it gonna be next week?

Henning said:
"It's the solid oxide cell technology, it's the immediate future of energy".

Hydrogen solutions (both fusion and fuel cells) are a little further down the road.
 
Henning- you ever notice that in the Star Trek universe they always seem to reroute power from some other system to a critical one (usually engines, weapons, shields, life support)....do you really think that energy consumption will solve the problems of peace on Earth? If you don't solve the root problem in the human psyche, there will just be something else to fight over.

The root cause problem is an evolutionary one, it is the step that takes us from a hunter gatherer thought process and evolves us into the next product of evolution, we are far from the completion of development and capability. In fact, we have barely started, we are yet embryonic, restricted to the cocoon of our planet unable to spread. The step is to evolve human thought from competitive to cooperative, from conceit to compassion. Without that we limit ourselves in ability by wasting all our resources on war and making money, both human and mineral resource, that we cannot afford to leave the planet. We are too protecting people's right to be greedy and suck every last dime out of the economy with no regards to the consequence on society like it was listed in the Bill of Rights.

It's a close race and has been for over 2000 years now when Christ made clear what needs to be done to progress. We have not yet achieved those goals, nor has there been any significant advance since Constantine usurped Christianity in the name of Imperial control.

All the technical aspects required for us to leave the planet are lining up to make it possible, so that is encouraging, but that is our technological evolution, and for that we have always been exceedingly brilliant.

Our social evolution though is not coming through though. We hit a stumbling point with money, and the funny thing is, they knew the risk back then and wrote rules to protect against the influence when they created money, and the penalty was being stoned to death for violating the rules.

One of mankind's primal drives is to covet, this is a food based survival instinct required early in the evolution of our species when we lived in sparse hunter gatherer tribes. It is not destructive in that setting because it is an extended family and the greedy child is regulated by the family/community.

As population density grows, and tribal culture develops beyond the family level, this trait starts becoming destructive and leads to violence and general discord. This is where we were at socially in the Fertile Crescent era when society got large and disparate enough to require a medium of economic exchange. They understood the burden and risk of discord possible if money were allowed to become its own commodity, to have an intrinsic worth, so they banned all usury.
In the development of the Abrahamic culture from those roots those rules were modified in the Jewish to be 'no usury among us, you can charge Gentiles' and then they relaxed that to "you can't charge us excess fees" and so the banking industry was born, and made Jews Infidels. Moses was the first revolutionary, then came Christ, and Mohammed, all to stop this, but it hasn't stopped.

The thing about allowing usury is it empowers that greedy brat kid who only knows "mine, mine, mine", those are the kids who grow up to be the leaders of the finance and industry. When you allow usury, you create an economic burden to place on a promise. You also promote those who value wealth and excess as your social exemplars, and this breeds covetous behavior and the social norm of excess consumption.

This one factor is what is preventing mankind from evolving, it is the one factor standing between extinction and space. It also happens to be the one factor that will keep Jews and Israel persecuted until the end of humanity; unless they give it up, change the system.

I have a way to do it that will have everyone smiling, no 'redistribution of wealth' required, no "Jews are the devil and we need to exterminate them", no bloody revolutions or collapses. Just a nice smooth transition into a different financial model with plenty for everyone and wide open to growth, economic growth supported by population growth rather than burdened by it.

It just requires some faith.
 
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