Turbo Blanket on T182T

S

swebster

Filing Flight Plan
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Stuntflyer
I have a 2002 Turbo 182T. If you have flown one of these you will be familiar with the incredible heat thrown off by the turbo charger. After flying for an hour you can quite literally fry an egg on the top of the cowl cover. The heat also contributes greatly to the hot start problems with the TIO540 engine. You HAVE to "flood start" it when the engine is hot or you will end up killing your starting motor and the thing will never light when hot.

So, in my quest to alleviate this problem, I have been searching for a Turbo blanket to wrap the turbo with which will help to contain the heat. Lycoming does offer one but its stupidly expensive (north of $2000). Aircraft Spruce offers a turbo blanket kit:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/turbokit.php

Anyone have any experience with this product and can offer any comments positive or negative on it? I don't want to go installing something like this without some feedback from others who have been there before. I'm not keen on in-flight fires, so some input from someone who may have used this thing would be much appreciated.

Thanks
 
I'm not familiar with your arrangement. But I'd look in to better air flow through that area and consider "not" doing a 5 minute ground idle. My turbo is the coolest on approach to landing ~700 deg F then begins the warming when taxiing. If I did the recommended ground idle things get real hot....above 1,000 deg F. Something to think on.

FWIW...TSIO520 with no extra blankets or turbo mods.
 
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You could open the cowl up to reduce heat soak if you knew you were going to have a hot start.

A bit of a PIA.....but for a 2k fix....I would go the PIA route.
 
The advantage that turbo blankets have is they also increase the efficiency of the turbo a bit. I don't know about what Aircraft Spruce is selling, but I have wrapped prett much every non water cooled turbo I've run to reduce engine compartment temps, and when I started doing it, I noticed a slight increase in max boost available.
 
Henning said:
The advantage that turbo blankets have is they also increase the efficiency of the turbo a bit. I don't know about what Aircraft Spruce is selling, but I have wrapped prett much every non water cooled turbo I've run to reduce engine compartment temps, and when I started doing it, I noticed a slight increase in max boost available.
Click to expand...

This is a given....what makes turbos spin?

And please don't tell me exhaust pressure.
 
Henning said:
Hamsters, the more heat you put to their asses, the faster they run.
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;):yes:

Problem with hot start is vapor lock with injected engine. Might be more cost effective to insulate the fuel lines. But we are dealing with the FAA so fuel line insulating may cost more than turbo blanket with an STC.
 
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Yup the moment I am on the ground I crack the cowl flaps all the way open, and when I park I leave the oil access door open for a while as well to try to vent more of the heat. My POH suggests a 2-3 min ground idle which I do follow, and I watch the EGTs on the EDM and once they drop below 870F or so I shutdown.

The hot start issue is definitely vapor lock. The IO360 in my previous 172 bird had same issue but nowhere near as bad as this turbo charged engine.
 
Louver STC/337?

Here's a 185 with a turbo 540 conversion.


image.jpg


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Not sure if there are any cowl louver options for 182, but just the side louvers make a good difference
 
swebster said:
Yup the moment I am on the ground I crack the cowl flaps all the way open, and when I park I leave the oil access door open for a while as well to try to vent more of the heat. My POH suggests a 2-3 min ground idle which I do follow, and I watch the EGTs on the EDM and once they drop below 870F or so I shutdown.

The hot start issue is definitely vapor lock. The IO360 in my previous 172 bird had same issue but nowhere near as bad as this turbo charged engine.
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Next time you go flying....take note of the TIT just before approaching the runway end lights before touch down. It'll be the lowest then. After you touch down and throttle back....open cowl flaps at first turn off and try and leave the throttles at idle all the way to parking....your turbo will remain coolest without adding or prolonging rpms.

When I don't do the 2-3 min cool down mine is cooler.....about 800 deg F at shut down.
 
That Louver STC looks rather interesting but I have not seen that for the 182. The side louver does look like it might help, although what happens in cold weather ops when you have to be careful with over cooling things on descent? Does it contribute to potential shock cooling issues?
 
I'll definitely check this out. Seems counter intuitive, but then again so is the hot start procedure I use. If I follow what the POH says to do to perform a hot start it will NEVER fire up and I will be changing starting motors annually. :)
 
swebster said:
That Louver STC looks rather interesting but I have not seen that for the 182. The side louver does look like it might help, although what happens in cold weather ops when you have to be careful with over cooling things on descent? Does it contribute to potential shock cooling issues?
Click to expand...

Most all the 206s and skywagons have them, in REALLY cold conditions I've seen folks just use aluminum foil tape to cover them and run a strip diagonal across the oil cooler.
 
18r83ey3w3o3zjpg.jpg
swebster said:
Yup the moment I am on the ground I crack the cowl flaps all the way open, and when I park I leave the oil access door open for a while as well to try to vent more of the heat. My POH suggests a 2-3 min ground idle which I do follow, and I watch the EGTs on the EDM and once they drop below 870F or so I shutdown.

The hot start issue is definitely vapor lock. The IO360 in my previous 172 bird had same issue but nowhere near as bad as this turbo charged engine.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind the main reason for the extended idle is for the protection of the turbo from a condition called " hot shutdown"... They don't want the oil to coke and fry in the turbocharger bearing housing...That condition leads to turbo seal failure... I really has nothing to do with overall under cowl temps.
 
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TEFLONSEAN said:
;):yes:

Problem with hot start is vapor lock with injected engine. Might be more cost effective to insulate the fuel lines. But we are dealing with the FAA so fuel line insulating may cost more than turbo blanket with an STC.
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That's why I prefer Continental FI to Lycoming's Bendix. Clearing the lines and hot starts are simple. I used the same procedure on my 310 regardless hot or cold and it always in 2-3 blades except once when it was really cold out and I needed to add more prime.
 
this pic is a turbo at "operational" temps (+1,500+1,650 deg F)....not idle.
N801BH said:
18r83ey3w3o3zjpg.jpg


Keep in mind the main reason for the extended idle is for the protection of the turbo from a condition called " hot shutdown"... They don't want the oil to coke and fry in the turbocharger bearing housing...That condition leads to turbo seal failure... I really has nothing to do with overall under cowl temps.
Click to expand...
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
this pic is a turbo at "operational" temps (+1,500+1,650 deg F)....not idle.
Click to expand...

Yup.....
But, it was THAT hot for the few hours before you landed... And it does take a few minutes to kool down while taxiing in.....

Remember, the turbine housing is cast iron and holds heat REAL good...:rolleyes:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
negative.....it does not take minutes to cool from operating temps. :no:
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So... You link to a video of a 40 second dyno (pull) run... BFD..

The motor didn't run long enough to even get the turbine housing red and the main reason is the half assed attempt didn't have proper (ANY) baffles to funnel cooling air over the cylinders.. They could only run it long enough to turn the pipes red . Whoppie....

My comment was a motor that had run HOURS ,,, not seconds..

And keeping with the topic of this thread... A extended run turbo takes minutes to cool down,, add the BLANKET covering the turbine housing and that cool down time in 2-4 times longer.....

You do realize a BLANKET holds in heat don't ya...:dunno::rolleyes:


I have built and run turbo motors for 40 years..... Believe what you will buddy...
 
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It doesn't take minutes for the turbo to cool on the ground.....I'm sticking wit dat.

.....and there's hardly any oil flow to cool it during those long ground idles.....maybe a quart or two of flow in a minute.:yikes:

You got a better video....or data?....show it.:dunno:
 
Henning said:
The advantage that turbo blankets have is they also increase the efficiency of the turbo a bit. I don't know about what Aircraft Spruce is selling, but I have wrapped prett much every non water cooled turbo I've run to reduce engine compartment temps, and when I started doing it, I noticed a slight increase in max boost available.
Click to expand...

No they don't. Not even the slightest. I'm not sure you understand what a turbocharger does if you claim that...?
 
N801BH said:
18r83ey3w3o3zjpg.jpg


Keep in mind the main reason for the extended idle is for the protection of the turbo from a condition called " hot shutdown"... They don't want the oil to coke and fry in the turbocharger bearing housing...That condition leads to turbo seal failure... I really has nothing to do with overall under cowl temps.
Click to expand...

Yup - absolutely correct. That is exactly why I let it idle for a while before shutdown. The heat soaking and resulting hot start issue is a secondary issue. I know many turbo charged engines have blankets on the turbos and exhaust down-pipes to reduce lag and contain radiant heat to adjacent components. I might pop a call to Lycoming tomorrow as well and pick their brain on this.
 
When exploring using a turbo'd mazda RX-7 rotary engine for aircraft use, we had a lot of discussion about ceramic coatings on the inside of the turbo to keep heat inside the exhaust lumen. Would this be an option in "certified" aviation engines?
 
Heat wraps increase the thermal load for the turbocharger. They improve engine cooling, but have zero effect on intake air temperatures for the engine. They are only useful if you are struggling with engine cooling.
They have absolutely no measurable effects for spoolup/boost/efficiency or anything you would notice. It simply is a way to keep engine bay cooler. The turbine nor the exhaust gases don't care, how much heat is "soaked" to the turbine housing, turbine efficiency does not depend on outside air temperature.

Also remember the effect for post-run "cooling down" time when you put a blanket over your turbocharger...
 
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