TSA detention for carring cash

Dave Siciliano

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Dave Siciliano
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM

This was posted on another board and has stirred a lot of discussion. It seems, none of us know what our rights were when stopped by a TSA agent, in the airport or elsewhere (like in our own hanger). Airport security used to only screen for dangerous items on the flight. Their scope is now expanded.

I don't understand why I should have to answer the questions they posed for carrying cash. IMO, they should be able to prevent me from boarding if I am a danger to the flight or am a terrorist trying to use it to further my purpose. Not to prevent me from carrying cash or other non-threatening items.

Best,

Dave
 
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All that for $4700? That's so far below the limit of what banks even have to report to the IRS that it's laughable to call it "suspicious"...
 
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I once got blocked from boarding for carrying two jars of "Better than Bullion" on the basis that they were "containers of liquid greater than 3 ounces," despite the fact that, while it's a bit gooey, it's not a liquid.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
All that for $4700? That's so far below the limit of what banks even have to report to the IRS that it's laughable to call it "suspicious"...
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Glad they didn't frisk me when I went to the desert in Feb.
 
That is so sad.....

I'd have played it the same way, except I would have requested a lawyer.
 
dmccormack said:
Interesting.. can you do that?

In other words, when detained by TSA, do you have the right to counsel then -- or have you tacitly waived that right?
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I dunno. Since its the TSA, in the name of national security, I would guess that a lawyer would be denied, since the discussion is confidential by nature and the lawyer would only complicate things so that the terrorists win.

Or something.
 
OH MY GOD!!!

"This whole TSA crap has gone way too far. That is an organization that has way too much power and way too little oversight. And as far as I am concerned, contributes very little to the safety of the system."
-Greg Bockelman 1/1/08
 
Greg Bockelman said:
OH MY GOD!!!

"This whole TSA crap has gone way too far. That is an organization that has way too much power and way too little oversight. And as far as I am concerned, contributes very little to the safety of the system."
-Greg Bockelman 1/1/08
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I refer you to my sig line. :cornut:
 
Oh my God. We are asked on customs forms whether or not we have cash in excess of $10,000 but it isn't ILLEGAL to carry that much. I have NEVER heard about any limits the TSA has on carrying cash. I wonder how they found out the guy was carrying it. The TSA is way the hell out of line.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Oh my God. We are asked on customs forms whether or not we have cash in excess of $10,000 but it isn't ILLEGAL to carry that much. I have NEVER heard about any limits the TSA has on carrying cash. I wonder how they found out the guy was carrying it. The TSA is way the hell out of line.
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Greg,

Apparently the wannabes in the headquarters office put out a directive that it was illegal to travel with more than $10,000. And it directed the TSA screeners to call in the armed law enforcement folks if they ever find it. They have had a couple of folks arrested and the cash seized. One was a used car dealer traveling to buy cars, another was a granny headed to Vegas.

That is all notwithstanding the fact that there IS NO SUCH LAW making travel with cash illegal. The ONLY laws related to large amounts of cash require declaration of the cash when traveling across the border (your aforementioned Customs requirement) and a requirement that certain financial institutions report transactions >$10,000 in cash. IT IS PERFECTLY LEGAL TO TRAVEL WITH LARGE AMOUNTS OF CASH DOMESTICALLY unconditionally and internationally if you declare it.

What's happened here is that someone has decided to use checkpoints as a dragnet. And someone has decided that large amounts of cash is a sign of either drug smuggling or terrorism. So TSA screeners have been ordered to report it and let the real law enforcement folks sort it out (in some cases that means confiscation of the cash until they investigate you and sort it out). Remember that SOME law enforcement folks operate under the theory that if you want it back, you'll hire a lawyer to get it back, which will cost you a lot of money. Under federal law, a bounty can be paid to police departments that seize assets related to drug smuggling.... but (like the SWAT team issues) there is no real penalty for making a mistake.

BTW, there was a cop from Nashville on another board trying to defend the policy claiming that it was fighting the drug war. He just didn't get the part about loss of civil rights.

Side note: I was advising a friend the other night that he shouldn't travel across borders with any kind of sensitive client info on unencrypted hard drives. He was suprised and shocked that US Customs has seized laptops....

Here's what the TSA has posted publically about carrying cash (meaning, we're running a dragnet, you must answer our interrogation or we'll have you detained):

Movements of large amounts of cash through the checkpoint may be investigated by law enforcement authorities if criminal activity is suspected. As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property, including why they are carrying a large sum of cash. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry.
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http://www.tsa.gov/blog (today's entry)

We have lost our country and made the Constitution into toilet paper.
 
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In AmeriKa is it now illegal to carry the currency the government prints?

Attending most foreclosure auctions I am required to post $5,000 in cash at the time of the sale.
 
Geico266 said:
In AmeriKa is it now illegal to carry the currency the government prints?

Attending most foreclosure auctions I am required to post $5,000 in cash at the time of the sale.
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Hide the cash from the cops.

You know they "arrest" the cash and it will take you a year to get it back if you ever do.

TENAHA, Texas— You can drive into this dusty fleck of a town near the Texas-Louisiana border if you're African-American, but you might not be able to drive out of it—at least not with your car, your cash, your jewelry or other valuables.

That's because the police here allegedly have found a way to strip motorists, many of them black, of their property without ever charging them with a crime. Instead they offer out-of-towners a grim choice: voluntarily sign over your belongings to the town, or face felony charges of money laundering or other serious crimes.

More than 140 people reluctantly accepted that deal from June 2006 to June 2008, according to court records. Among them were a black grandmother from Akron, who surrendered $4,000 in cash after Tenaha police pulled her over, and an interracial couple from Houston, who gave up more than $6,000 after police threatened to seize their children and put them into foster care, the court documents show. Neither the grandmother nor the couple were charged with any crime. ...


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10,0,6051682.story
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Lets hope we last until we have a U.S.Supreme Court that can read the constitution.
 
By the way, here's a reference to the TSA's official policy from a blog post on 2/21/08:

Operation Directive: Discovery of Contraband During the Screening Process OD-400-54-2 May 9, 2005

Expiration – Indefinite

Summary - This directive provides guidance to ensure nationwide consistency in the appropriate referral or initiation of civil enforcement actions for incidents involving discovery of contraband during TSA screening procedures.

Procedures - When TSA discovers contraband during the screening process that is not a TSA Prohibited Item, the matter should be referred to the local Law Enforcement Officers as appropriate. An Enforcement Investigative Report should not be initiated.

Examples of such contraband include:

- Illegal Drugs
- Drug Paraphernalia
- Large Amounts of Cash(10,000.00)

The OD was signed by TSA's Chief Operating Officer at the time, Jonathan J. Fleming

For the rest of the document, (contact numbers and e-mails) please use the FOIA process for OD-400-54-2
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A number of years ago (way before 9/11) I saw the police come and search a piston twin freighter supposedly because the pilot had paid cash for the fuel at his previous stop. This was in Gunnison, CO. Don't know how it turned out.
 
Everskyward said:
A number of years ago (way before 9/11) I saw the police come and search a piston twin freighter supposedly because the pilot had paid cash for the fuel at his previous stop. This was in Gunnison, CO. Don't know how it turned out.
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I hope they had a warrant, a legal & valid warrant signed by a judge and everything!

Maybe folks should just post signs which state that legal tender will result in persecution...
 
The problem is that cash can't be traced the way a credit card can. The government would be very, very happy if people never used cash because folks would be much easier to track.

There is a subtle message here....
 
wsuffa said:
The problem is that cash can't be traced the way a credit card can. The government would be very, very happy if people never used cash because folks would be much easier to track.

There is a subtle message here....
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Yeah, start using cash for everything.


I am starting to be really afraid of our government. :incazzato:
 
wsuffa said:
The problem is that cash can't be traced the way a credit card can. The government would be very, very happy if people never used cash because folks would be much easier to track.

There is a subtle message here....
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At the same time the credit card companies are profiling you based on what you charge. They're lowering credit on people who charge fast food and groceries because that's a sign they're out of money.

I started using cash rather than even my debit card. Dave Ramsey followers put cash in envelopes and buy groceries from the envelope. Now they gotta worry that the grocery money will be confiscated.

Note to Americans: You kinna win. :incazzato:
 
mikea said:
At the same time the credit card companies are profiling you based on what you charge. They're lowering credit on people who charge fast food and groceries because that's a sign they're out of money. :incazzato:
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Or that they're trying to accumulate those miles or points!:cryin:
 
Me and the wife are really SOL. We don't have a credit card and pay for everything with cash or debit card.
 
Glad they didn't ever check the G-V I flew for a couple years. Two safes in the airplane (that even the best of them would have had trouble finding) that had enough cash that the $4,700 wouldn't have been a significant part of the tip. In Bali, we needed a full bag to go back to Kuwait, had to buy about 4,500 gal. When we asked the guy on the truck for cash and credit-card pricing, he said cash was .67 per gal (their units were liters) and card price was something over $3/gal. About three decks of $100 bills. I found myself wondering if whoever owned the fuel in that truck ever saw any of the money.

Everskyward said:
A number of years ago (way before 9/11) I saw the police come and search a piston twin freighter supposedly because the pilot had paid cash for the fuel at his previous stop. This was in Gunnison, CO. Don't know how it turned out.
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wsuffa said:
Greg,


http://www.tsa.gov/blog (today's entry)

We have lost our country and made the Constitution into toilet paper.
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I love the part where it says

"As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property, including why they are carrying a large sum of cash. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry."

They themselves admit they are not the appropriate authorities. Why has Obama not shut down this farce of a company yet (not going political, you can insert "The president" and refer to any president that is currently in office and get the same point). I mean, it can't just be the general public that sees the TSA as the nuisance that they are, right?
 
SkyHog said:
I love the part where it says

"As a general rule, passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property, including why they are carrying a large sum of cash. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry."
...
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"Officer! Over here! This guy won't tell me where he got the less than $10,000 that he's carrying! Worse than that, I caught him with a bottle of water, too!!!!"
 
Yea, we had to pay in cash for fuel in Mexico also. Not on your scale, but enough for customs to ask why were were carrying several thousand in cash. Of course, it would have been much better to use ATMs down there and get hit with ATM fees and currency conversion ratios that were nuts--right (if you could get them to work)?

I understand the customs folks are trying to do a job, but most of them could never afford to fly a plane, much less understand the costs associated with that.

Best,

Dave
 
So, now it's illegal to carry legal US tender?

Got it.

:incazzato:
 
TSA: Proof that the USA has been taken over by idiots.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
He wasn't detained for having cash - he was detained for having a 'tude.
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Well, yeah, if calmly and consistently asking if the people demanding answers to questions actually have a right to ask them is having an attitude.

If you listen to the tape, the citizen is calm and collected, and the TSA screener and police have attitudes. The TSA has already admitted that the screener didn't live up to their standards of professionalism - an amazing admission in and of itself, given their history of never, ever, ever admitting even the slightest error.
 
jmaynard said:
Well, yeah, if calmly and consistently asking if the people demanding answers to questions actually have a right to ask them is having an attitude.
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He didn't do / say what they wanted him to do / say the way they wanted him to do / say it.

Therefore he gets busted.

He would have had the same problem if he only had 52 cents in his pocket.
 
Everskyward said:
A number of years ago (way before 9/11) I saw the police come and search a piston twin freighter supposedly because the pilot had paid cash for the fuel at his previous stop. This was in Gunnison, CO. Don't know how it turned out.
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That would take a warrant. Either there was something more than allowed a judge to find P.C., or there's a major violation there.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
He didn't do / say what they wanted him to do / say the way they wanted him to do / say it.

Therefore he gets busted.

He would have had the same problem if he only had 52 cents in his pocket.
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Since when does the TSA have the legal right to question someone about his lawful activities?
 
jmaynard said:
Since when does the TSA have the legal right to question someone about his lawful activities?
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Law enforcement has always had a right to detain and question, without arrest, 'suspicious' persons. I was once stopped, questioned and photographed at 9pm in Melbourne Beach, ten miles south of my house, while walking back to my friends house from the store three blocks away. My crime...:dunno: I suppose being in your twenties and wearing a knit watch cap was 'suspicious' in 1984.
 
Richard said:
There is us and there is them. It's been that way for a long time but it is getting worse. That is, they are getting more bold about being in your face.
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Which is why I'm so amazed at how so many people want MORE government. :confused:
 
Dart said:
Law enforcement has always had a right to detain and question, without arrest, 'suspicious' persons. I was once stopped, questioned and photographed at 9pm in Melbourne Beach, ten miles south of my house, while walking back to my friends house from the store three blocks away. My crime...:dunno: I suppose being in your twenties and wearing a knit watch cap was 'suspicious' in 1984.
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You guessed wrong. It was the "walking" part you shouldn't have been doing. That would get you sent to Gitmo if you did it in Beverly Hills.
 
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