TSA Clearance

N801BH said:
Not nasty at all.. We are all just speculating on his situation.... Without him spelling out his citizenship route he is taking to become an American Citizen, we can only guess........
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And your first guess defaults to the opinion that the OP is trolling?
 
bluee said:
So are you going to tell us the countries involved?
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I don't want to start nationalistic/ethnic flame wars. This is, after all, an aviation forum, not an immigration forum.
 
JeffDG said:
Ouch...that's a tough one.

I would keep escalating at TSA through the 20-30 levels of supervisors until you can find someone who can make something happen!
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How would I go about doing that? Whom would I, for example, make an appointment with?

Thank you!
 
weilke said:
If you were a refugee or asylee immediately prior to becoming a PR, you could obtain a refugee travel document from USCIS by filing form I131.

If the politics of your parents home country have changed in the meantime, getting a passport from there would probably be your best bet.
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Not an asylee or a refugee. And yes, I will be speaking to my embassy again very soon.
 
Found this on the AOPA site.

Can an alien candidate register without a passport?

You are generally required to have a passport, but there are some people with very special circumstances who cannot obtain a passport. TSA will handle these situations on a case-by-case basis. Contact AOPA’s Pilot Information Center at 1-800-USA-AOPA or the TSA Help Desk for further guidance.
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http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/alienft.html
 
Everskyward said:
Found this on the AOPA site.
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Normally, you have to be an AOPA member to get help from AOPA, but they might make an exception in this most unusual case.

As for getting help from TSA, I really think you'd do better to attack that one from the top via your Congressional representatives rather than from the bottom via the TSA Help Desk.
 
Ron Levy said:
Normally, you have to be an AOPA member to get help from AOPA, but they might make an exception in this most unusual case.
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Maybe the OPs CFI or someone from his flight school is a member.
 
Maybe this office could suggest a way to address the problem:

TSA Ombudsman

Email: TSA.Ombudsman@dhs.gov

Phone: 1-571-227-2383 or 1-877-266-2837

Besides being a resource for TSA employees, the Office of the Ombudsman may be able to assist members of the general public who have questions or concerns about TSA processes, programs or procedures.

The general public should bring issues to the TSA Ombudsman only if all other available resources for resolution have been unsuccessful. Assistance from the Ombudsman is confidential, neutral, and informal.

The Office of the Ombudsman can answer inquiries, facilitate communications, and identify options for problem resolution brought by the general public. The Ombudsman does not accept notices on behalf of the TSA; act as a substitute for other formal complaint avenues; or intervene on questions or issues regarding DHS Trip.

The Ombudsman is also available to TSA employees wishing to discuss concerns or issues regarding the workplace.
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http://www.tsa.gov/contact
 
aviatingfool said:
1. Absolutely - done.
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I strongly agree with the sentiments expressed WRT discouraging remarks directed to new members who came here to ask questions regardless of their chosen screen name. If that gets me on your list, so be it.:yes: Impolite remarks made to longtime formum members are bad enough but striking against a newcomer on their first post hurts this forum's reputation.
2. The General won't be pleased with anyone using his name -sorry you wouldn't understand.
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Never met the man but from what I've heard from a few who have, if Gen. Yeager happened across this thread (like that's gonna happen) I strongly suspect his only reaction to a potential pilot using his name as a forum handle would be mild amusement. OTOH, if HE were to tell me otherwise I'd believe it.
 
I would like to thank everyone for their recommendations. I am also somewhat confused as to how my seemingly innocuous question turned into a full-fledged flame war with name calling and all. Anyway, I want to address a few issues either explicitly questioned or implied in this thread.

  1. I have all of my immigration ducks in a row. I am naturalizing as fast as I am legally allowed. All of the documents I could possibly have, I do have.
  2. I will be eligible to apply for US Citizenship in 1.5 years and will be doing so with all speed.
  3. If I go to the embassy of my parents' citizenship and they say: "The computer says you're a citizen!" Then it will take a little over a year to get my passport. Having already had contact with said embassy/consulate I am much more confident that I'll get a US passport before I get my "ethnic" passport.
  4. Some of you may wonder how I travel outside of US? Well, for the longest time I didn't but, then I got something called a "Travel Document." It looks like a cheap, fake passport but, it is not. It is only good for re-entering US and glueing/stamping foreign visas. I already checked with TSA call center robots: they will not accept it.
In summary: I don't have a problem as such. All this means is that my flight training will be delayed by a couple of years. I wanted to fly ever since I was a little however, only got job which allows me to do so in the last year. Annoying but, whatever -- first world problems. I simply wanted to learn if anyone has gone through something similar and what steps (s)he took. I also struggle to conceive of the legal rationale behind requiring a foreign passport of an individual who has been in this country since before (s)he could sign a pizza purchase order, much less accumulate any history worthy of an investigation in his/her native land.

Here is what currently being done:

  1. My flight school has inquired about an appeal process one could follow to even get to talk to someone in the TSA who can make decisions or at least initiate a decision-making sequence.
  2. I will be contacting the infamous embassy/consulate with haste and, who knows, maybe they'll issue me a passport in a few months (In my dreams).
After reading some of the recommendations in this thread, here is what I will do:

  1. Contact AOPA
  2. Contact TSA Ombudsman
Here is what I will consider doing if the above contacts are fruitless:

  1. Contact my representative
  2. Practice on gliders and/or light aircraft
Here are the things mentioned in the thread I will likely not do:

  1. Hire an attorney to handle this
  2. Go to court
Thanks everyone! I will update this thread when something of note transpires.

Almost forgot, regarding my choice of a user name... I do not see how using chuck_yeager on an aviation forum is offensive any more than using baRack_nObama or Rush_LimpDough on a political forum, Spongebob_penis on 4chan, or Chuck_Norris on Reddit. I certainly did not mean to insult the great aviator and was quite surprised the user name hasn't already been taken.
 
Don't sweat the chuck yeager thing, chuck will be dead soon.:rofl:
 
chuck_yeager said:
I would like to thank everyone for their recommendations. I am also somewhat confused as to how my seemingly innocuous question turned into a full-fledged flame war with name calling and all. Anyway, I want to address a few issues either explicitly questioned or implied in this thread.
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Nothing you did wrong. It's an internet thing.
 
chuck_yeager said:
  1. Some of you may wonder how I travel outside of US? Well, for the longest time I didn't but, then I got something called a "Travel Document." It looks like a cheap, fake passport but, it is not. It is only good for re-entering US and glueing/stamping foreign visas. I already checked with TSA call center robots: they will not accept it.
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If you can risk $130, you could consider to just upload the 131, label it as 'passport', upload your state drivers license and see where you get with them. The call center robots work for a contractor and have only a script to go by.


And really, think about getting the glider license. You can collect a couple of hours, really learn how to fly. To get the single-engine land add-on, you still need to do all the required items like instrument instruction and test-prep, but the total hours count towards the 40 required and coming from gliders you will be able to get the powered with less hours than someone starting from scratch.
 
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Just curious, what's the cause for the 1.5 year remaining until you can naturalize? Is it your age (less than 18) or your time as a Lawful Permanent Resident (5 years)?
 
JeffDG said:
Just curious, what's the cause for the 1.5 year remaining until you can naturalize? Is it your age (less than 18) or your time as a Lawful Permanent Resident (5 years)?
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Time as a Lawful Permanent Resident.
 
weilke said:
If you can risk $130, you could consider to just upload the 131, label it as 'passport', upload your state drivers license and see where you get with them. The call center robots work for a contractor and have only a script to go by.


And really, think about getting the glider license. You can collect a couple of hours, really learn how to fly. To get the single-engine land add-on, you still need to do all the required items like instrument instruction and test-prep, but the total hours count towards the 40 required and coming from gliders you will be able to get the powered with less hours than someone starting from scratch.
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Really BAD advice. If you do that and it's ever discovered, can you say, "instant deportation and never naturalized?" I think weilke is joking, however...
 
bbchien said:
Really BAD advice. If you do that and it's ever discovered, can you say, "instant deportation and never naturalized?" I think weilke is joking, however...
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With 'label it as passport' I did not imply falsifying anything on the document itself.

My suggestion is to upload the form I131 as one of the identity documents required under AFSP. When uploading the form, I would suggest to use the 'passport' label and to designate it 'Refugee/Asylee' instead of 'Regular'. That is exactly what the RTD represents, a document issued by DHS that allows the bearer to travel internationally without having the formal protections of a US passport. I would also attach a copy of the notice of action that granted the greencard under the 'LPR' label. The AFSP system offers the option to enter ones nationality as free-form entry, I would put 'Stateless' there.
There is no misrepresentation involved, the system offers all this as an option. The worst consequence imnho would be a denial without prejudice for insufficient documentation (and forfeiture of the $130 application fee).
 
I think Bruce thought that you meant that Mr Yeager should misrepresent himself as a US Citizen, which would indeed be a Very Bad Idea. I think that you're actually suggesting could be worth a try, but my hunch is that it's not too likely to work.
 
chuck_yeager said:
Here is what currently being done:

  1. My flight school has inquired about an appeal process one could follow to even get to talk to someone in the TSA who can make decisions or at least initiate a decision-making sequence.
  2. I will be contacting the infamous embassy/consulate with haste and, who knows, maybe they'll issue me a passport in a few months (In my dreams).
After reading some of the recommendations in this thread, here is what I will do:

  1. Contact AOPA
  2. Contact TSA Ombudsman
Here is what I will consider doing if the above contacts are fruitless:

  1. Contact my representative
  2. Practice on gliders and/or light aircraft
Here are the things mentioned in the thread I will likely not do:

  1. Hire an attorney to handle this
  2. Go to court
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Sounds good, my only suggestion would be to move "contact my representative" further up to the "will do" list - their constituent service office exists pretty much for this purpose (advocating for their constituents when federal bureaucracy is being unreasonably difficult). It's common for them to help out with immigration matters, and this TSA issue seems like it should be within their purview as well (although I doubt they have direct experience with exactly your situation).
 
pericynthion said:
I think Bruce thought that you meant that Mr Yeager should misrepresent himself as a US Citizen, which would indeed be a Very Bad Idea. I think that you're actually suggesting could be worth a try, but my hunch is that it's not too likely to work.
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What I am suggesting is to enter everything the same way the TSA requires it for a refugee/asylee who is now in LPR status. While the OP obtained his LPR status through some alternate means (DIV ?), his situation at this point is pretty much the same as that of someone who came as an asylee/refugee.
 
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chuck_yeager said:
I would like to thank everyone for their recommendations. I am also somewhat confused as to how my seemingly innocuous question turned into a full-fledged flame war with name calling and all.
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Yes, its too bad. Every forum seems to have a local idiot or two.

Most folks learn pretty quickly who to ignore, as there are many solid contributors here.
 
I was here 1 day shy of 16 years when I took the oath. The things you learn with retrospect are hard to foresee lol.
 
Ron Levy said:
Normally, you have to be an AOPA member to get help from AOPA, but they might make an exception in this most unusual case.

As for getting help from TSA, I really think you'd do better to attack that one from the top via your Congressional representatives rather than from the bottom via the TSA Help Desk.
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What's membership now, $32 still? Cheap at double the price if they handle it for him but I think you're right, it's a government desk they'll refer him to, likely no membership required. Congressional reps are a mixed beg, some do better than others.
 
Henning said:
I was here 1 day shy of 16 years when I took the oath. The things you learn with retrospect are hard to foresee lol.
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I've been eligible to apply for 7 years and it's been one of those things at the top of my TODO list since then.

It really only comes up when I get to opt out of jury duty, really... And now, of course, when I want to try to get a new rating.

I really need to get around to it.
 
Someone earlier mentioned The Terminal. That's immediately what I thought of and Victor Navorski kept flowing through my head.

I'm sorry about your situation, OP. It just seems so silly that you have to have a passport to fly a plane in the pattern. I really hope your situation gets better.
 
HerrGruyere said:
Someone earlier mentioned The Terminal. That's immediately what I thought of and Victor Navorski kept flowing through my head.

I'm sorry about your situation, OP. It just seems so silly that you have to have a passport to fly a plane in the pattern. I really hope your situation gets better.
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That movie did not deal with a stateless person. It dealt with someone who had no valid passport, but remained a citizen of his home country.

Statelessness is incredibly rare.
 
The General was NOT impressed with this foreigner's use of his name.....or his problem. :nono:
 

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bbchien said:
n00b, gotta apologize for this guy.....he got himself thrown out of another board....we gotta put up with this c_ap.

Peoria IL, my hometown is filled with South Asian engineering staff who have been here for all their family raising years. They make all that heavy stuff work. Their kids have finished at the local high schools and are in major universities, and the parents are still waiting for citizenship.

Then you have the "pull up the drawbridge" stuff. sigh.
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I spent a few years at the CAT Tech Center in Mossville. I worked in the process technology group. It was me and a dozen Indian engineers all with advanced degrees from top US schools (I was the dummy of the group ;^). That was my first introduction to US immigration law and I wasn't proud of what I saw. They all, universally, wanted to live and work in the US, but we made it extremely difficult. Now, fifteen years on, there are just one or two still at CAT. The remainder of that group is now spread around the world and there is a LOT of excellent talent currently generating value and jobs in other countries.
 
Join the Military you can apply for citizenship the next day...probably not in your plans...
 
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