TSA and Honeymoons

[AuntPeggy]

Sure, it happens here and nowhere else because the guy down the street is just smarter or nastier than anyone else in the rest of the country?

gets excited whenever I become the topic of a thread.

 

[Gerhardt]

WalMart?

That phrase doesn't mean much about anyone's firearms knowledge or experience. Especially if it's a big box store.

No, not a big box store at all; we handle only shooting and hunting items. The NRA has been greatly benefitted by us and we have helped them flourish to provide us all with the support we need. There are a lot of people who know a lot more than I do about the industry, but I doubt there's a person on this forum who knows a tenth as much. One thing is for certain, and that's that if I have a question I can have a 100% reliable answer within seconds.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

There are a lot of people who know a lot more than I do about the industry, but I doubt there's a person on this forum who knows a tenth as much. One thing is for certain, and that's that if I have a question I can have a 100% reliable answer within seconds.

Wow. I...don't really know how to reply to that.

 

[ggroves]

Generally, if a retail store doesn't have a firing range attached, where the sales guys double as Range Safety Officers and Instructors... I'm not going to listen to much coming out of the sales guy's pie-hole without knowing a lot more about their background. Just the way it is.

Being insulting, self important, and arrogant comes effortlessly for you apparently. Congrats, Internet Douche.


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[Gerhardt]

Being insulting, self important, and arrogant comes effortlessly for you apparently. Congrats, Internet Douche.


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Yeah, I bet he's a real pleasure with at the gun counter. I've learned more from sales reps than anywhere else. They are the ones who know the intracacies of their products. They know the subtle (and major) changes that have been made or are about to be made.

And the guy at the counter, who handles hundreds of varieties of firearms, dozens on a daily basis....he's the one who can size up a person's needs and steer the customer to a selection to help narrow the customer's focus so that a better, well-informed decision can be made. But no, denver, the guy off the street, knows more than anyone else...unless a range is attached to the store, which somehow makes a difference?

 

[Gerhardt]

Wow. I...don't really know how to reply to that.

Well, you don't have to. I was a systems analyst a lifetime ago. But I've been out of the industry long enough to know that there are a lot of people on this forum who know infinitely more than I do about the industry today. Everyone has his area of expertise. Some are skilled in one area or another of IT, some are geniuses when it comes to working on aircraft, etc. So yeah, I take offense when a couple of blowhards go online pretending to be know-it-alls in an area that I work, live and breathe.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Well, you don't have to. I was a systems analyst a lifetime ago. But I've been out of the industry long enough to know that there are a lot of people on this forum who know infinitely more than I do about the industry today. Everyone has his area of expertise. Some are skilled in one area or another of IT, some are geniuses when it comes to working on aircraft, etc. So yeah, I take offense when a couple of blowhards go online pretending to be know-it-alls in an area that I work, live and breathe.

The statement I responded to was this one:

There are a lot of people who know a lot more than I do about the industry, but I doubt there's a person on this forum who knows a tenth as much.

So I read that, and I think:

• There are 15,000 people registered on POA, and Gerhardt believes he knows more about this topic than all of them. Not only that, but 10x more.
• I know an airline pilot who is a guide for big-game hunts in Alaska and Africa as his "other job." He's also active in online forums. Odds are he has an account here (I haven't asked.) The fact that you (believe you) know 10x as much as he does is maybe a wee bit arrogant.
• I know a custom rifle builder on another aviation forum. Pretty knowledgable about long range shooting and reloading. Odds are he's a member here. You know ten times as much as he does. Just, wow.
• Another fella I know is working on his Private slowly with one of his children. His love is long-range night shooting with pretty expensive light-amplification devices on the rifles. The longest I've seen are silhouettes at ~ 900 yards on a moonless night, but still - pretty impressive. I'm almost certain he has an account here.

I'm a nobody. I did some time in the infantry, have gone to Gunsite for their 250 course, have been to school where I shot 12" steel plates at a kilometer and a half, do some reloading, have a 100 yard range in the back yard with a good 25 yard pistol range where I try to keep my skills fresh. I'd describe my firearms intelligence as "competent." I know my limits and I know what I can do on a good day. For me, you saying you know ten times as much as I know doesn't ring true, but I won't call you out on it.

My point was unclear. I meant to say "there's a large degree of hubris in that post. People might take you more seriously if you toned it down a bit." That's all.

 

[Clark1961]

People might take you more seriously if you toned it down a bit." That's all.

I agree with you, there are many posts in this thread that could/should be toned down more just a bit.

 

[denverpilot]

Being insulting, self important, and arrogant comes effortlessly for you apparently. Congrats, Internet Douche.

Let's see. I simply said I would want more information about the individual's background at a sales counter at a store.

You started off with zero information about who you are or what you do, and started with insults. Note my post did not include insults. Feel free to re-read the thread and see who started flinging mud first.

Now you claim you work at a store and can ask other people's opinions at said store. Nifty. I can do that too. So what was your point again? You gave your opinion. I gave mine. Both were backed up by separate laws showing that even the Almighty religion of Law hadn't settled the matter.

So it's your opinion and my opinion and we're on the Internet where everyone is going to give one (a given, otherwise why participate in a thing called a "forum"? It's not "Firearms Experts of America" and Mods don't vet the people coming here for their firearms backgrounds, duuuuuuh...), and that's that. No need to get all upset about it. I'm not. Yawn.

All those things you attribute to me are emotions you're having. They're what they are, but not all that interesting to me. They're your choice on how to react.

Peggy apparently thinks she has an even bigger one living near her WalMart, and chooses not to clean it up. That's her choice too. She would like it if folks thought there was one of those idiots near every WalMart I guess. Or folks not willing to turn them in.

Or something. Hell if I know. It's often difficult to ascertain her points, which are also based in chosen emotions, intended to garner an emotional response instead of a rational one. The intent usually appears to be emotional manipulation from here.

I got a good chuckle out of her thinking automatic firearms were somehow involved in this thread. Yup, the kid walked next door to his WalMart and had his pistol modified. Ha. Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!

Meanwhile... back to the topic at hand...

Does the kid deserve a criminal record or bankruptcy, or both? I say no. He's an idiot but not that big of one. He's no threat to society.

"OMG! He had a 'loaded gun' at an airport!!! Everybody freak out!!! Quick!!!" ROFL. Society is probably more a threat to itself, considering society's lack of emotional self-control. Especially over anything that looks like a gun.

Panic at the disco... LOL!

Dumb reaction: OMG that guy has a GUN! I choose to feel scared!

Normal reaction: OMG! That guy has a GUN! Hey buddy? Is that a Sig? Good lord that's a nice piece of gear you have there! Mind if I ask you what you paid for it?

Replace "gun" in either reaction with "truck". See? It works. Or "broom". Or any other tool.

 

[denverpilot]

By the way... Gerhardt...

NICE discount!

I hope you can take advantage of it to get some nice stuff.

Dad stumbled into a circumstance where he was needed and ended up working retail part-time at one of his hobby stores when he "retired". Talk about temptation.

We've chuckled that his radio and radio gear collection has a spare for everything, as we've dug through it all.

Have fun selling and collecting.

Wouldn't it be grand if we could all find part-time gigs with 40% off on a new Cessna? Ha.

 

[JohnF]

... Does the kid deserve a criminal record or bankruptcy, or both? I say no. He's an idiot but not that big of one. He's no threat to society. ...

I also say no. But, not an idiot, just a guy that goofed; we all do that.

 

[denverpilot]

I also say no. But, not an idiot, just a guy that goofed; we all do that.

Ahh. I call it what it is. But I'm also willing to call myself an idiot when I make mistakes. Mistakes are based in idiocy. Maybe a mild form of it, but still something he didn't know.

And not reading the rules before going, is the part that crossed over from mistake to idiocy.

Still. We can't lock up all of us idiots. Locking up those who truly believe they're never stupid might be a good thing though. That's sociopathic by definition.

 

[JohnF]

Ahh. I call it what it is.

I guess that depends on what your definition of is is.

But I'm also willing to call myself an idiot when I make mistakes.

Feel free. I consider this statement about yourself idiotic. That doesn't mean that I agree that you are an idiot.

Words matter Nate. Sure, this is a forum of friends but on the one hand you call for rational debate and expression of reason, a place where language and definition matter the most, and then subvert your own arguments with sputters of emotionally charged colloquialisms. How am I to take your rhetoric? Serious? Ranting?

I started to go through the effort of shredding your post by taking apart your language and quoting merriam-webster. A lot. But I don't imagine it would be worth the effort and long ago gave up on ad hominem bickering making any real progress in debate.

So, I give you this:

Mistakes are based in idiocy.

This premise is false.
What does "mistake" mean?

None of the definitions of mistake intersect with the definition of idiocy. More importantly, one definition of "mistake" is "to misunderstand" which is clearly not idiotic.

 

[denverpilot]

It's simple. Anything posted here is Internet bull****. Doesn't matter if it's from me or anyone else.

It's entertainment between bouts of real life. Not a single post here is important. Not a single post here will affect firearms law, or condom taxation, or dog license prices, or the cost of Tea in Great Brittain.

That's how important my posts are. I know my place in our society.

You can pull out themes from my writing and know me fairly well from them, but careful wordsmithing? Nah. Other than being quite literal, I don't really care. It's the internet not debate club. LOL. Some people here do feel otherwise. They're kinda entertaining to read.

Anyway... Mistakes are misunderstandings. You get that part. Ok.

How do you misunderstand something as simple as "read the easily found non-secret one-Google away rules, before you take a firearm to a place where tons of other idiots are paid to think they're stopping terrorism", without being an idiot?

You'd really have to live under a rock to not know our society is full of people utterly and stupidly terrified of firearms. (And light aircraft for that matter.)

Maybe a better way to put it is, "really big mistakes are the root cause of idiotic behavior".

Or... "Everyone's an idiot, sometimes."

Humans are generally really stupid animals. Stupid enough to believe that posting rules for other humans will actually stop them from doing stupid human animal tricks.

"Gun free zone". Laughable.

You claimed that I come across as "self- important" in one post. That's quite literally the opposite of where I'm at in life.

I'm at the "be responsible for your own crap and shun idiots who think rules and laws and worship of them is going to save them". I really don't care if the kid were to go board the airplane with the thing strapped to his hip, he wouldn't hurt a fly.

But there's a whole ton of folk who think they need to be mommy or daddy or whatever, and really love all the rules and regulations to the point where they study them and get some sort of comfort from them. See any FAR thread here. You'd think it was Bible Study camp. Yes you need to know your FARs. Yes it's good that some folks have turned it into a study worthy of theological PhD proportions and defer any hard questions to the high FAA Priest, the almighty and honorable, "Chief Counsel". All good. But you know... That rulebook could be simplified to about ten pages for Private aviation.


We apparently want folks to create 30,000 more new laws per year for us all to live by, or we would tell them to stop, right? LOL. Right. Sure.

Idiots make mistakes. Most folks are idiots about large swaths of topics, and maybe not such idiots at the few things they know well.

And as Dr. house says, on top of that... Everybody lies."

I'm way way WAY less interested in words than actions. I hear that every politician says they're going to make all our lives better every election, right? Words. Useless words.

This kid was apparently an idiot when it comes to how to look up airport firearms rules. That doesn't make him a total idiot. Just one on that particular topic.

The idiots who check luggage all day who think they're fighting terrorism, found his firearm. Good.

Then they threw the book at him. Bad. That book was written by idiots who are really good at being manipulative sociopaths who want to run his (and everyone else's) lives. Probably not a great book to base much action on without thought or judgement.

So yeah, I make fun of the human condition. It's what I do. I'm not just skeptical, about society being "civilized", I've read enough history books to know it's not, and won't ever be.

The law books and rules will be lowered to the lowest common denominator of idiocy. That's where it's all headed. This kid just kicked that can a little further down the road.

AP doesn't like guns. So she pipes up and says there's one guy somewhere near a WalMart who is the root of all firearm evil. LOL Got it? We must need some more laws. That'll stop him! LOL

The only way to be free of the idiocracy is to make or have so much money you can keep lawyers on retainer. That's the America I grew up in. The America the people who think all their hot air and electing idiots who blow even more hot air, actually means something.

Warren Buffet doesn't worry if he's breaking any laws. Jobs didn't, Gates, any of 'em. They have lawyers to deal with that silly stuff.

This kid? Not so much. He'll be chewed up and spit out by all his lovely "civilized" neighbors who twitch whenever the media says "gun". Bankrupt him. Toss him in jail. Trash his reputation with a criminal record. That'll fix him! Bad little accidental non-conformist!

They've all been carefully taught to be afraid. Be very afraid. That man has a GUN! Oh no.

None of us should even have to be discussing it or worrying about our "words". The proper response of a civilized society should have been, "Son, the sociopaths in DC say you can't have that magazine in there. I'll remove it for you. Can you tuck that in a different bag for me? Thanks. Have a nice day and a safe journey."

 

[JohnF]

... You claimed that I come across as "self- important" in one post. ...

Not me dude. In general we see things about the same, you and I. I do think words matter though. Indoctrination works.

None of us should even have to be discussing it or worrying about our "words". The proper response of a civilized society should have been ...

But when a person makes a declaration that their idea is a priori with no supporting basis or "words" then it often does come across as self-important.
I can see how people would think it so.

And especially here on the internet, where I get no body language cues, the message is the man.

 

[denverpilot]

And especially here on the internet, where I get no body language cues, the message is the man.

I see it completely the opposite. If Internet messages were real, no one here would be posting under pseudonyms, and I'd believe the 95% of BS I see on other's Facebook posts. LOL.

I don't go out of my way to hide who I am, nor do I say things I wouldn't say in person, but that's not the norm online.

I'm engaging in a discussion with people who start off not telling you who they are, right there is a sign the forums online are generally, madness.

About the only difference between the "online" me and the in-person me, is online me will just say it and not bother taking much time to make it perfect. It just isn't worth the effort when talking to pseudonyms.

 

[JohnF]

I see it completely the opposite.

I think you are actually supporting my argument.

But at least we do agree that any punitive action against the young man in the original post will have absolutely no real affect at improving public safety because the law requiring that the firearm that is locked in a box that no one can get to is flawed in that the safeness of the firearm is the same whether the loaded magazine is in the gun or in another locked box. In fact, it is no safer than a gun in which there is no ammunition in the same county.

There are some people in the thread that believe the action was just. Some who think so because they believe that the underlying point of the law is to enforce that guns that are carried in checked baggage are safer if configured without loaded magazines. My point (our point?) is that the difference in safety between having the locked away loaded magazine in the gun or in a box by itself is zero. Not some small probability but zero. As a scientist I am telling you that zero difference is very significant. Zero is less than the likelihood of a midair collision on your trip. It is far less than the probability that the captain of your aircraft will be suicidal and crash the plane.

I am pretty imaginative but I do not think that I can concoct a situation where the difference in public safety depended on whether a locked away from human contact loaded magazine was in the gun or not.

Anyway: Ranting pseudonym? That's a choice.

 

[denverpilot]

Yup. Fair 'nuff.