Trump to headline privatized ATC next week

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wsuffa

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Bill S.
Posting this as factual, not political, but realizing the two are intertwined. Please keep on the topic and avoid the political rants.

Trump will host airline executives (no GA folks, apparently) at the WH to push for ATC privatization next week. It will be the "headline" of his infrastructure push. Looks like opposition will have to take place in Congress. WaPo article with more info:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...aacb04-47c5-11e7-a196-a1bb629f64cb_story.html
 
There is no evidence Trump or anyone else will privatize ATC and hand aviation over to the commercial carriers.
 
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Posting this as factual, not political, but realizing the two are intertwined. Please keep on the topic and avoid the political rants.

Trump will host airline executives (no GA folks, apparently) at the WH to push for ATC privatization next week. It will be the "headline" of his infrastructure push. Looks like opposition will have to take place in Congress. WaPo article with more info:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...aacb04-47c5-11e7-a196-a1bb629f64cb_story.html

Unfortunately this is probably the only thing I would disagree with Trump about, but honestly I don't blame him, it's not like he hates GA he just doesn't know about it.

Also do we know for sure that privatized ATC is actually a bad thing or just chicken little the sky is falling.
 
So you're anti NATO too? I could go on...


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No surprise - all to the advantage of Big Corp.
 
Posting this as factual, not political, but realizing the two are intertwined.

Even Mari knows to close this thread post haste. Nothing but politics here. Starting with "Trump will host airline executives (no GA folks, apparently) at the WH to push for ATC privatization next week. It will be the "headline" of his infrastructure push. Looks like opposition will have to take place in Congress" as paraphrased from WAPO.
 
it's not like he hates GA he just doesn't know about it.

Business jets and business owners are members of the GA segment not the commercial segment. Trump wants to downsize the government. This is probably part of that.
 
From Bloomberg:
While providing few specifics, Cohn said Trump’s proposal would create a new user fee to replace current taxes on aviation fuel and airline tickets. He also said there would be unspecified protections for rural airports; critics of the air-traffic plan have said it would jeopardize small airports by giving too much power to airlines and large hubs..

User fees to replace taxes on avgas. Does anyone really think that taxes will actually be replaced?
 
The OP asked that this thread not descend into political rants and the MC is going to insist, lest the thread be closed and warnings given.

So I only have to ask that my political posts not be treated as political and they will be fair game? WOW.

We can rack up a dozen fun threads...

[insert some zero tolerance crap here]
 
Some idiots just can't help it.

Who is the idiot? The person posting political topics or the person responding?

Don't bother answering, we'll just rely on the Southern "Bless your heart"
 
For all intent and purposes we belong to the flight training demographic. They are our umbrella interest group. If they get a carve out from user fees we should get a carve out. This is a food fight between turbine GA and the airlines. We re irrelevant but if turbine GA loses the fight we are screwed because they can afford the pay to play, we cannot. Hell even flight training cannot. Hopefully we re able to keep the sky accessible to recreational aviation.
 
The one making it about a Trump dis instead of what was intended by the OP.

Pasting from the OP -- Trump will host airline executives (no GA folks, apparently) at the WH to push for ATC privatization next week.

If the post said "the administration" instead of the name of the current president it would still read clearly that the OP is against the idea because of the lack of "GA folks".

It is a policy discussion and therefore supposedly banned. How hard is that to understand?
 
Pasting from the OP -- Trump will host airline executives (no GA folks, apparently) at the WH to push for ATC privatization next week.

If the post said "the administration" instead of the name of the current president it would still read clearly that the OP is against the idea because of the lack of "GA folks".

It is a policy discussion and therefore supposedly banned. How hard is that to understand?

I really think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. My post had nothing to do with you. I agree with what you are saying.
 
So I only have to ask that my political posts not be treated as political and they will be fair game? WOW.

We can rack up a dozen fun threads...

[insert some zero tolerance crap here]
The thread was GA related. If we can talk about it in that vein and not descend into political rants it can stay.
 
Also do we know for sure that privatized ATC is actually a bad thing or just chicken little the sky is falling.
I can only speak from first hand experience in two ways on the subject. This is my opinion for what it's worth.

1) As a contract (private) controller at a very busy GA airport in my before life, company profits mattered more than service and safety. They tried to run that place with way less than half the controllers an FAA facility would have been run. This ended up creating many dangerous situations for the flying public and decreased services as well. I've controlled at the busiest AF base (at the time), the world's busiest tower (at the time), the worlds busiest airshow and the worlds busiest stand alone TRACON and I was pushed towards losing the flick at that contract tower more than any of those and that was while having to curtail services.

2) When we lose the TRANSCON routes across the country due to wx and need to push routes up to Canada they routinely put huge mile in trail restrictions in place because "it's not a smart business decision" for them to call in OT/equipment limitations.

I'm all for being fiscally responsible and in some cases smaller/less involved government but I think ATC should remain government controlled. For a corporation it will be about profit (rightfully so). Services will be curtailed to certain segments. Safety will be diminished. They will seek user fees.

Again, just my $0.02.
 
I never any problems with ATC in Canada. One particular airport often had delays and flow control... until they built another runway, something that happens rarely in this country. Per capita, I'm guessing that Canadians use air travel more than people here in the States due to the size of their country and lack of other forms of transportation to places in the north.
 
I never any problems with ATC in Canada. One particular airport often had delays and flow control... until they built another runway. Per capita, I'm guessing that Canadians use air travel more than people here in the States due to the size of their country and lack of other forms of transportation to places in the north.
I haven't flown in Canada yet (it'll happen soon for sure). I'm sure Canada has no problem running their normal traffic. My point was when we try to run large amounts of US traffic through Canada they refuse to staff appropriately to handle the increased volume due to business decisions. When the reverse happens, we take all their planes and will staff appropriately.
 
I haven't flown in Canada yet (it'll happen soon for sure). I'm sure Canada has no problem running their normal traffic. My point was when we try to run large amounts of US traffic through Canada they refuse to staff appropriately to handle the increased volume due to business decisions. When the reverse happens, we take all their planes and will staff appropriately.
Curious how you know it's a business decision. When there is weather within the US, traffic often is delayed too, even if no part of the flight is over Canada.
 
Curious how you know it's a business decision. When there is weather within the US, traffic often is delayed too, even if no part of the flight is over Canada.
From working with the Air Traffic Control Command Center that deals with these issues. When we've tried to use the north routes at times (not always) that was their reason for not taking them. In the example I use, there are no weather issues up there and no congestion issues (we can see all of this).

It's hard to do a true apple to apples comparison but in my experience, what I've described is the closest comparison. To simply talk of wx delays is too complex and doesn't offer a fair comparison. i.e. Is the wx delay because of a thunderstorm on an airport, is it because it's below RVR values, is it the winds requiring a reduced rate configuration, is it a through put delay due to departure restrictions, is it a solid line with tops above obtainable cruising altitudes, etc.

I do understand where you're coming from but this is just my opinion based on my experiences.
 
I dont think it is political to make the observation that Trump Is not the type of person to go into detail on much of anything, he doesn't read reports, and seemingly is swayed by the last people he spoke with. He doesn't seek out information.

So if GA is not represented in the meeting, even though he owns some planes, I seriously doubt he will seek out or hear from any advisers to consider the total implications of privatization of ATC. I.e. He will make a decision being uninformed, and without a lot of consideration.

As an aside, I have read in several different source that his brother that passed away who he actually seemed to be very fond of, was ridiculed by him and his father for being an airline pilot. Both Trump and his father Fred saw being an airline pilot as they put it, "like being a bus driver". I don't get that. Even before starting to learn to fly I knew that it was a rigorous and highly skilled job that took a lot of knowledge to do safely. Not dissing bus driving, but there is a LOT to learn to pass the exams, and the skills required are not simple.

Also, he had a "fight" going on with that airport he is impacting in Florida, when he goes most weekends there, and I read he had tried suing them for flying over mar a lago which irritate him apparently. That might indicate no love for GA flying.

The only upside I can see, it's reported he does speak with his own private pilot a good deal.

Unlike Trump, even though I believe I am not dumb, and have some smarts, I know that I don't know enough about privatization of ATC to even evaluate it. I am an American living in Norway, and am mostly learning about this issue from right here on POA and I see points on both sides of the argument. In general, gut feeling is it is a mistake. Profit can make for a conflict of interest in general. Airspace safety seems to me to be something that a profit motive could have adverse affects but I know that I don't know enough about the issue to really weigh in. Trump believes he instinctively "knows" everything without doing the actual work of weighing the arguments.

Again, not political, I was no fan of Nixon but one thing, human and insightful, that I was impressed with, the man knew that he too was susceptible to impassioned people, or great presentations, and he apparently had insight enough to know that had a good chance to sway him on issues, so he demanded that when his advisors were in disagreement that they submitted written arguments, thus negating flashy or charismatic presenter influence. I wish more people in power could be that self aware.
 
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Profit can make for a conflict of interest in general. Airspace safety seems to me to be something that a profit motive could have adverse affects but I know that I don't know enough about the issue to really weigh in.
The FAA has budgetary restrictions too, and ATC in Canada is a non-profit corporation. Whatever the system, money will be an issue and is not unlimited.
 
I dont think it is political to make the observation that Trump Is not the type of person to go into detail on much of anything, he doesn't read reports, and seemingly is swayed by the last people he spoke with. He doesn't seek out information.

is it political to challenge you? He must be the luckiest sumbitch ever born to have amassed the wealth he clearly has, and get voted in to the office he clearly has, without going into detail on anything, reading reports, or seeking information.

Unlike Trump, even though I believe I am not dumb, and have some smarts, I know that I don't know enough about privatization of ATC to even evaluate it.
...
Again, not political, I was no fan of Nixon but one thing, human and insightful, that I was impressed with, the man knew that he too was susceptible to impassioned people, or great presentations, and he apparently had insight enough to know that had a good chance to sway him on issues, so he demanded that when his advisors were in disagreement that they submitted written arguments, thus negating flashy or charismatic presenter influence. I wish more people in power could be that self aware.

Re-requesting the lock on this obviously political thread.
 
So far I have been a supporter of mostly everything Trump has done (tired to do), but I am gonna have to disapprove of this one.
All politics is local,............and apparently self serving.
 
At a discussion with various Colorado stakeholders for aviation in general and GA in particular, the opinion of very knowledgable people (including a lobbyist on the GA side) is that the Colorado congressional contingent (all of them) were opposed to privatizing GA. Unfortunately, there is at least one of the 7, possibly 2, that will publicly stay in step with POTUS, and no one is sure how they will vote, if it comes to that.

So the approach is to contact your Rep & Senator by telephone (I've been told that email is not nearly as effective) and talk to the staffer who handles Transportation and convey your opinion. Facts are important, not just opinion. NBAA, AOPA and EAA have suggested talking points on their websites.

Another important factual data point - contact your State Transportation division that handles Aviation and get the latest economic report. For example, in Colorado, aviation contributes $36.5 Billion and 265,700 jobs to the Colorado economy. Remove the 600# gorilla (DIA/KDEN) then the other 72 airports (GA and the other handful with commercial service) contributes $10.5 Billion according to the 2013 report, or almost 30%.

https://www.codot.gov/programs/aeronautics/Economic Impact Study

Go find the one for your state. Facts and dollars make the most compelling argument.
 
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There is no evidence Trump or anyone else will privatize ATC and hand aviation over to the commercial carriers.

Every president since Reagan has proposed ATC user fees. Trump is the first to hold a rally to push for it.

Sorry AOPA, but if you have a flight dept., paid pilots, and a jet, you are not GA.
 
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Note: We don't want to read what you think of Trump on any other issue. Keep to the subject of privatization.
 
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...Looks like opposition will have to take place in Congress....
That's the way it has always worked out in recent decades, regardless of which party controls which party controls the White House.
 
Even Mari knows to close this thread post haste. Nothing but politics here. Starting with "Trump will host airline executives (no GA folks, apparently) at the WH to push for ATC privatization next week. It will be the "headline" of his infrastructure push. Looks like opposition will have to take place in Congress" as paraphrased from WAPO.
Facts, no opinion.

Trump is president, and he will host airline executives. There's no opinion there, just fact.
There is no indication that GA folks will be there. No mention in the article, so it's "apparent" rather than "proven fact". It is proven fact that the primary GA organizations (AOPA, EAA, NBAA) have voiced opposition. No opinion in that phrase either.
The "headline" sentence was taken straight from the article and represents "facts" as they have gathered them. Again, fact, not opinion.
The last sentences is paraphrasing the article. If Trump/WH/President is in favor than it is a fact that any opposition will have to take place in Congress. Fact, not opinion.

I have not expressed an opinion here. I have reported Who, What, When, Where, and Why, the 5 Ws of journalism.

With that, I repeat my request to not turn this into a political argument, or any other argument for that matter. In the end, it's up to the MC to determine whether the thread turns into a political argument. If I see it happening, I will personally ask them to either close it or take whatever action they determine is appropriate.
 
After watching Trump for couple of years one thing I can tell you is that he is a populist guy. If somehow he knows tnat GA pilots are his great fans then he will back off from this. Question is how we can convey this message to him. Cause he will do anything to please his base considering all the troubles he has right now
 
From the WAPO piece: "In the briefing for reporters, Cohn pledged that in Trump’s plan “there is money to make sure that rural airports get protected.”"

Next week is "Infrastructure Week" where the administration wants to zero in on a broad range of private sector efforts. The reform of the FAA and aviation are just one part of that effort. The administration says it wants the FAA to move more quickly in getting rid of obsolete technology like VORs and Radar systems and to complete NextGen and GPS based systems. Privatizing ATC is simply part of moving government functions into the private sector and the ATC union supports the idea.
 
is it political to challenge you? He must be the luckiest sumbitch ever born to have amassed the wealth he clearly has, and get voted in to the office he clearly has, without going into detail on anything, reading reports, or seeking information.



Re-requesting the lock on this obviously political thread.

You are wrong. I pointed out his personal idiosyncrasies, not a political ideology.
It has nothing to do with political affiliations.
 
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