truck on runway

[Threefingeredjack]

I understand that. We were taking about a maint crew on the ground. No need for them to monitor approach, he's on CTAF.

When I was trained, it was the responsibility of the IFR pilot on approach to not only listen/monitor ATC, but to also announce on CTAF the arrival into the airport.

Airports in Class G, pilots only need 1 mile VIS and clear of clouds to be in the traffic pattern.

Sure you were monitoring the CTAF while on approach, but timing is everything. The truck makes an announcement on CTAF that he is accessing the runway, micro seconds before you start to monitor. You say nothing during the approach, and the driver knows not that you want the runway.

We never heard the county truck announce, nor did the communications watchstander at our facility on the field. But the driver said he did, and CTAF was not a priority channel for the watchstander, 121.5 and Ch 16 plus our other freqs were. I have no reason to doubt the driver did not follow procedure. Our policy was changed after the incident review .

 

[tlglenn]

Well the obvious answer, at least to me, is that we were IMC until we broke out and went missed. I have never encountered an instrument approach where the controlling facility released you until you reported the field in sight, or they handed you off to another facility such as a tower.

I flew into Arcata last year and approach told me to switch to CTAF while I was still in hard IMC (could CTAF be considered another facility?).

 

[PW_Plack]

Typically when IFR into an airport that was below VFR minimums we would monitor but not announce unless we heard traffic...

Is it just me, or does that sound like a line from an NTSB report?

You realize, of course, that this is the mirror image of what the truck driver did. Nothing heard, so why transmit?

Our group just had our annual gyroplane meet at KBMC, an 8,900-x-100' runway with almost no traffic. We brief our attendees on the need for using the radio properly, regardless of what else they hear or don't hear, and they've gotten pretty diligent as a group over the years. Our biggest problems are now based locals or transient jets making 10-mile, straight-in, downwind VFR approaches without using their radios because it's Class G below 700' and/or "there's never anybody here."

This year we had an arriving Citation pilot go all bonkers at the FBO while refueling, complaining that he had to do a go-around due to gyroplanes on the runway. We have the CTAF playing through the PA in the hangar, so we know he didn't announce. If you're in a slow aircraft, jets can come in fast enough behind you to go undetected during your takeoff roll without the radio call.

I wasn't there, but I'm told the FBO operator called him out for arriving NORDO. Apparently just to put us all in our place and assert his jet-awesomeness, the pilot then didn't bother announcing on taxi or takeoff when he left, but at least everyone knew to watch out by then.

There is always the potential for things to be happening on the ground at an airport that's below VFR. If you're going to go to the trouble of tuning the radio to the CTAF to listen, why would you not announce?

 

[ClimbnSink]

A Citation pilot pretending he is a Cub pilot, hilarious.

Is it just me, or does that sound like a line from an NTSB report?

You realize, of course, that this is the mirror image of what the truck driver did. Nothing heard, so why transmit?

Our group just had our annual gyroplane meet at KBMC, an 8,900-x-100' runway with almost no traffic. We brief our attendees on the need for using the radio properly, regardless of what else they hear or don't hear, and they've gotten pretty diligent as a group over the years. Our biggest problems are now based locals or transient jets making 10-mile, straight-in, downwind VFR approaches without using their radios because it's Class G below 700' and/or "there's never anybody here."

This year we had an arriving Citation pilot go all bonkers at the FBO while refueling, complaining that he had to do a go-around due to gyroplanes on the runway. We have the CTAF playing through the PA in the hangar, so we know he didn't announce. If you're in a slow aircraft, jets can come in fast enough behind you to go undetected during your takeoff roll without the radio call.

I wasn't there, but I'm told the FBO operator called him out for arriving NORDO. Apparently just to put us all in our place and assert his jet-awesomeness, the pilot then didn't bother announcing on taxi or takeoff when he left, but at least everyone knew to watch out by then.

There is always the potential for things to be happening on the ground at an airport that's below VFR. If you're going to go to the trouble of tuning the radio to the CTAF to listen, why would you not announce?

 

[comanchepilot]

Did you call a three mile final?

 

[dukeblue219]

Well the obvious answer, at least to me, is that we were IMC until we broke out and went missed. I have never encountered an instrument approach where the controlling facility released you until you reported the field in sight, or they handed you off to another facility such as a tower.

It sounds to me like you have significant experience with IFR ops, but this is counter to everything I learned in training. There's absolutely no reason center/approach should keep you on just because you're in IMC (how do they even know?). There are a million non-towered airports out there with 200-ft minimums on their ILS or LPV approaches and ATC is certainly not going to stay with you until you call field in sight at 200' AGL.

Whether training under VFR or flying in actual I regularly get something like "N12345 no traffic observed between you and the field, change to advisory approved" with plenty of time to at least make a "three mile straight in runway XX" call if not something better. That's why we have published missed approach procedures, because you're not expected to still be in comms with the controlling facility (and at many airports you'll be out of radar or radio coverage).

It's extraordinarily dangerous to just pop out of the clouds, especially in a fast moving plane, without announcing first. You can reasonably assume nobody is flying on a cruddy, rainy day, but it's still a big risk to just show up on a 1-mile final at 120 knots or better and hope nobody is in the pattern or working on the runway.

 

[Jaybird180]

If the controller is having a bad day, what would be a prudent distance to remond them you need to change freqs?

 

[Jack Spectre]

When I was a student pilot, I took a solo flight to a nearby pilot controlled airport. It was winter, so I wasn't too surprised to see a snow blower on the side of the runway (comfortably off to the side) when I flew over. On final the snowblower was further down and still out of the way. On short final a small truck darted on to the runway from midfield and started hauling ass upwind. I went around and returned to my home airport.

There weren't any NOTAMs of any kind for people driving on the runway. Nobody responded to my radio calls.

 

[EdFred]

Well the obvious answer, at least to me, is that we were IMC until we broke out and went missed. I have never encountered an instrument approach where the controlling facility released you until you reported the field in sight, or they handed you off to another facility such as a tower.

The majority of my approaches are the exact opposite of your experience. Then again, the majority of my approaches are into non-towered fields.

 

[N801BH]

When I was a student pilot, I took a solo flight to a nearby pilot controlled airport. It was winter, so I wasn't too surprised to see a snow blower on the side of the runway (comfortably off to the side) when I flew over. On final the snowblower was further down and still out of the way. On short final a small truck darted on to the runway from midfield and started hauling ass upwind. I went around and returned to my home airport.

There weren't any NOTAMs of any kind for people driving on the runway. Nobody responded to my radio calls.

A fast and LOW approach would have been prudent in that case.. And I mean a VERY LOW approach..

 

[PBristolJr]

A fast and LOW approach would have been prudent in that case.. And I mean a VERY LOW approach..

Inverted...Communicating. Keeping up foreign relations.

 

[Jaybird180]

Nice