Trip report and questions

AlphaWhiskey

AlphaWhiskey

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
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40
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Yardley PA
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AlphaWhiskey
My son and I left KTTN Thursday around 2 PM EDT heading toward KJKA. When vectoring northwest of the DC airspace, my Garmin 530W showed an outer ring for the restricted (I even clicked on it to check) that Foreflight on my Ipad said was just the mode C. I was afraid I might breach it so I said to ATC "New to the area, please advise if 2W2 is within the restricted" and he said "No." I felt stupid.
My son got antsy so we stopped at KROA around 5 PM EDT and decided to spend the night. Really nice folks at the FBO there.
Departed 9 AM EDT Friday from KROA and around 1 PM EDT and were 45 minutes outside KJKA with about 1.5 hours of fuel. Clouds built steadily during flight but we were above them. I listened to some AWOSs and ASOSs at some airports we passed and the ceiling was under 1000. I could not get the weather at KJKA, mysterious. I elected to divert west to a towered airport and stopped at KBFM since the ceilling there was higher and I figured tower could help me with turns if I needed it (I'm not IFR yet). Still couldn't get KJKA info even on the ground, but at least I had full tanks for a 15 minute flight and I figured we could turn back if things got ugly. Ceiling was fine and got into KJKA no problem. Found out at the FBO that the weather antenna was hit by lightning and it will be out for weeks which I did not see on the NOTAMs.
So here are the questions:
1. Why would the Garmin show the Mode C as restricted around Washington DC when I clicked on it? I updated the database before leaving.
2. Did I do the right thing asking ATC around Washington DC about 2W2 even though he probably thinks I'm a moron or should I have just stayed further north?
3. When clouds build and you are VFR (and not instrument rated yet) but it is clear above the clouds, what is the best next step? Did I make a mistake to keep going? Should I have contacted Flight Service?
4. When weather is out at an airport that normally has one, is there usually a NOTAM?
Thanks in advance, trying to learn from this trip.
 
AlphaWhiskey said:
My son and I left KTTN Thursday around 2 PM EDT heading toward KJKA. When vectoring northwest of the DC airspace, my Garmin 530W showed an outer ring for the restricted (I even clicked on it to check) that Foreflight on my Ipad said was just the mode C. I was afraid I might breach it so I said to ATC "New to the area, please advise if 2W2 is within the restricted" and he said "No." I felt stupid.
My son got antsy so we stopped at KROA around 5 PM EDT and decided to spend the night. Really nice folks at the FBO there.
Departed 9 AM EDT Friday from KROA and around 1 PM EDT and were 45 minutes outside KJKA with about 1.5 hours of fuel. Clouds built steadily during flight but we were above them. I listened to some AWOSs and ASOSs at some airports we passed and the ceiling was under 1000. I could not get the weather at KJKA, mysterious. I elected to divert west to a towered airport and stopped at KBFM since the ceilling there was higher and I figured tower could help me with turns if I needed it (I'm not IFR yet). Still couldn't get KJKA info even on the ground, but at least I had full tanks for a 15 minute flight and I figured we could turn back if things got ugly. Ceiling was fine and got into KJKA no problem. Found out at the FBO that the weather antenna was hit by lightning and it will be out for weeks which I did not see on the NOTAMs.
So here are the questions:
1. Why would the Garmin show the Mode C as restricted around Washington DC when I clicked on it? I updated the database before leaving.
2. Did I do the right thing asking ATC around Washington DC about 2W2 even though he probably thinks I'm a moron or should I have just stayed further north?
3. When clouds build and you are VFR (and not instrument rated yet) but it is clear above the clouds, what is the best next step? Did I make a mistake to keep going? Should I have contacted Flight Service?
4. When weather is out at an airport that normally has one, is there usually a NOTAM?
Thanks in advance, trying to learn from this trip.
Click to expand...

1. You were looking at the 60nm special awareness training ring for operations near the SFRA. You did take the training, right?

2. See question #1.

3. I wasn't there, so I can't say. Always have an out or two, or three...

4. There's supposed to be, but sometimes airports managers are unaware or lazy. Check nearby weather at another airport and overfly as necessary to visually check the windsock.
 
I don't know why pilots have such a tough time with this:
If you don't know, ASK someone.
You did exactly the right thing.
 
AlphaWhiskey said:
My son and I left KTTN Thursday around 2 PM EDT heading toward KJKA. When vectoring northwest of the DC airspace, my Garmin 530W showed an outer ring for the restricted (I even clicked on it to check) that Foreflight on my Ipad said was just the mode C. I was afraid I might breach it so I said to ATC "New to the area, please advise if 2W2 is within the restricted" and he said "No." I felt stupid.
My son got antsy so we stopped at KROA around 5 PM EDT and decided to spend the night. Really nice folks at the FBO there.
Departed 9 AM EDT Friday from KROA and around 1 PM EDT and were 45 minutes outside KJKA with about 1.5 hours of fuel. Clouds built steadily during flight but we were above them. I listened to some AWOSs and ASOSs at some airports we passed and the ceiling was under 1000. I could not get the weather at KJKA, mysterious. I elected to divert west to a towered airport and stopped at KBFM since the ceilling there was higher and I figured tower could help me with turns if I needed it (I'm not IFR yet). Still couldn't get KJKA info even on the ground, but at least I had full tanks for a 15 minute flight and I figured we could turn back if things got ugly. Ceiling was fine and got into KJKA no problem. Found out at the FBO that the weather antenna was hit by lightning and it will be out for weeks which I did not see on the NOTAMs.
So here are the questions:
1. Why would the Garmin show the Mode C as restricted around Washington DC when I clicked on it? I updated the database before leaving.
2. Did I do the right thing asking ATC around Washington DC about 2W2 even though he probably thinks I'm a moron or should I have just stayed further north?
3. When clouds build and you are VFR (and not instrument rated yet) but it is clear above the clouds, what is the best next step? Did I make a mistake to keep going? Should I have contacted Flight Service?
4. When weather is out at an airport that normally has one, is there usually a NOTAM?
Thanks in advance, trying to learn from this trip.
Click to expand...

In response to your question #3, if you are VFR Over The Top of a ceiling, you do not contact Flight Watch/Service to determine conditions along your route, and you have 45 min. of fuel upon reaching your destination, what is your plan if you are unable to descend under VFR?
 
AlphaWhiskey said:
My son and I left KTTN Thursday around 2 PM EDT heading toward KJKA. When vectoring northwest of the DC airspace, my Garmin 530W showed an outer ring for the restricted (I even clicked on it to check) that Foreflight on my Ipad said was just the mode C. I was afraid I might breach it so I said to ATC "New to the area, please advise if 2W2 is within the restricted" and he said "No." I felt stupid.
My son got antsy so we stopped at KROA around 5 PM EDT and decided to spend the night. Really nice folks at the FBO there.
Departed 9 AM EDT Friday from KROA and around 1 PM EDT and were 45 minutes outside KJKA with about 1.5 hours of fuel. Clouds built steadily during flight but we were above them. I listened to some AWOSs and ASOSs at some airports we passed and the ceiling was under 1000. I could not get the weather at KJKA, mysterious. I elected to divert west to a towered airport and stopped at KBFM since the ceilling there was higher and I figured tower could help me with turns if I needed it (I'm not IFR yet). Still couldn't get KJKA info even on the ground, but at least I had full tanks for a 15 minute flight and I figured we could turn back if things got ugly. Ceiling was fine and got into KJKA no problem. Found out at the FBO that the weather antenna was hit by lightning and it will be out for weeks which I did not see on the NOTAMs.
So here are the questions:
1. Why would the Garmin show the Mode C as restricted around Washington DC when I clicked on it? I updated the database before leaving.
2. Did I do the right thing asking ATC around Washington DC about 2W2 even though he probably thinks I'm a moron or should I have just stayed further north?
3. When clouds build and you are VFR (and not instrument rated yet) but it is clear above the clouds, what is the best next step? Did I make a mistake to keep going? Should I have contacted Flight Service?
4. When weather is out at an airport that normally has one, is there usually a NOTAM?
Thanks in advance, trying to learn from this trip.
Click to expand...

1 & 2. You did the correct thing by asking. When in doubt ask.
3. Inflight weather would be helpful in this situation. Looking ahead ( farther than the AWOS reports) is invaluable for IFR or VFR. Plus you have winds aloft for better fuel economy. ;)
4. Depends on the airport manager, but yes.

You should be commended for asking for a critique. It is how we learn. :yes:
 
Brad Z said:
1. You were looking at the 60nm special awareness training ring for operations near the SFRA. You did take the training, right?
Click to expand...
It's also the SPEED RING where excess of 230 knots indicated is restricted.
 
Brad Z said:
So, did you take the SFRA training?
Click to expand...

You've asked this question twice, but I'm struggling to understand why he owes you an answer to it. It doesn't sound as though he was operating nor planning to operate in the SFRA, but instead just navigating around it.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
You've asked this question twice, but I'm struggling to understand why he owes you an answer to it. It doesn't sound as though he was operating nor planning to operate in the SFRA, but instead just navigating around it.
Click to expand...

The SFRA training is required for flights within 60nm of the DCA VOR -- ie, to land at 2W2, you don't have to follow procedures to enter the SFRA, but you still have to have the little piece of paper that says you did indeed take the training.

That said, i agree that he doesn't owe anyone here an answer to the question, and if I unknowingly hadn't taken the required training I certainly wouldn't be posting that fact on a web forum. I'd just be clicking along online and printing out the little piece of paper before my next flight.

EDIT: Speaking of which, the free, required, online training is here.
 
Last edited:
mcmanigle said:
The SFRA training is required for flights within 60nm of the DCA VOR -- ie, to land at 2W2, you don't have to follow procedures to enter the SFRA, but you still have to have the little piece of paper that says you did indeed take the training.

That said, i agree that he doesn't owe anyone here an answer to the question, and if I unknowingly hadn't taken the required training I certainly wouldn't be posting that fact on a web forum. I'd just be clicking along online and printing out the little piece of paper before my next flight.

EDIT: Speaking of which, the free, required, online training is here.
Click to expand...

It doesn't appear that he had any intention of landing at 2W2, and I have no idea how close to 2W2 he was, but in any case it isn't the business of anyone here to be policing compliance with the training.

Personally, I think the SFRA training requirement as written is a load of nonsense. I'm sure that the intent is to ensure that folks operating close to, but not within, the SFRA have an awareness of its existence, but a 30nm buffer is well beyond what is reasonable to protect against accidental intrusion. Of course, I think the entire SFRA is a load of nonsense as well, especially when you consider that its purpose is to protect some of the least-valuable members of our society.


JKG
 
Geico, thanks for the kind words, my intention was exactly that, learn from my more experienced fellow aviators. It is nice to be encouraged not flogged. And yes, all can be sure I have learned the SFRA lesson.
 
Have had the training for the sfra matter of fact looked it over a second time.Then I followed the procedures which was no help to get into Leesburg.You enter through a portal for the field.can get confusing if you are coming from the northeast.
 
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