Trimming technique

[TangoWhiskey]

I know this is a "basic" topic, but let's talk about how best to trim an airplane to fly it more efficiently and with less pilot workload. I know I could do better at it.

We're all taught "trim away the pressure you're having to hold". The missing part of that statement is "the pressure you're having to hold to maintain a specific desired pitch or speed." Once you've got that nailed down, then you can trim away the forces you're having to hold. Any subsequent desired change in airspeed will require a change in trim, but one shouldn't change the airspeed by turning the trim wheel--instead, pitch (and set power, as required) for the new speed, let it stabilize, then trim out pressures. Yes?

Another thing I read is that you effectively only trim for speed. In other words, once trimmed, the aircraft is going to hold the speed it is trimmed for. If you increase power without changing anything else, you'll climb at the trimmed airspeed; decrease power, you'll descend at the trimmed airspeed. Once trimmed, altitude (or rate of descent/ascent) is controlled with power, speed with pitch (attached to the trim).

For a steady approach, say in a Cessna where you're coming over the numbers at 65-70 knots, but flying the earlier parts of the approach at 90 knots or better; do you re-trim on short final to hold the slower airspeed? I think I've been doing that, as I transition to the 182, and it's causing me problems I didn't experience in the 172. I think I need to get my trim nailed down earlier, then left alone, to get my approach speed stabilized. Will go out Saturday for more practice.

And on technique... when you add rudder trim into the equation, like the 182 has, do you adjust one before the other (elevator trim before rudder, or vice versa), or does it not matter. Assume you're leveling at cruise... what order do you use to get things trimmed out? My intuition is saying it wouldn't matter. Get wings level, ball centered, speed stabilized, then trim away pressures in feet and yoke.

Always learning...

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I think it somewhat depends.

For cruise, fo-sho trim trim trim. It's never right on the first attempt, so keep tweeking.

At altitude, I tweek the trim to hold altitude. Power I set at xxxx RPM and leave it. In the pattern, I trim for the speed and use power to let it down.

When I was getting my re-tread lessons in a Cessna 150, trimming for the lower speeds in the pattern was a big help. I was all over that wheel. But in my little LSA I typically don't bother - dunno why, but it doesn't seem to be necessary. Stick vs Yoke? Friction? Poorly located trim knob (under my left knee)? Just plain less change in speed? Dunno.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

We're all taught "trim away the pressure you're having to hold". The missing part of that statement is "the pressure you're having to hold to maintain a specific desired pitch or speed." Once you've got that nailed down, then you can trim away the forces you're having to hold. Any subsequent desired change in airspeed will require a change in trim, but one shouldn't change the airspeed by turning the trim wheel--instead, pitch (and set power, as required) for the new speed, let it stabilize, then trim out pressures. Yes?

Yes.

For a steady approach, say in a Cessna where you're coming over the numbers at 65-70 knots, but flying the earlier parts of the approach at 90 knots or better; do you re-trim on short final to hold the slower airspeed? I think I've been doing that, as I transition to the 182, and it's causing me problems I didn't experience in the 172. I think I need to get my trim nailed down earlier, then left alone, to get my approach speed stabilized. Will go out Saturday for more practice.

Troy,

Here's what I do in the 182. You may need to modify it a bit because I think you're flying a new 182 with a different engine and only 30-degree flaps, right?

Generally, when I begin my descent from cruise, I'll give it one swipe (a highly precise measurement ) of nose-down trim and leave power as-is for the time being. I aim for 500fpm and generally get about 10 knots faster than I got at cruise. When I descend far enough that MP increases to say 24" or so, or airspeed gets higher than I want, I pull the throttle back to 20" MP, and re-trim to hold 500 fpm descent. A few miles from the destination, I'll pull back to 16" MP, which will slow me down to 100 mph (87 knots) once I level off. I'll trim for that speed when I do level off, and that's how I enter the pattern.

In the pattern, I don't change trim at all. The 182 I fly works just beautifully if I follow this sequence: I come in at 100 mph/87 knots trimmed for level flight at that speed, 16" MP and still at cruise RPM (generally between 2200-2400, this on an O-470 equipped bird with a max RPM of 2600). Abeam the numbers when I start my descent, I'll simply pull the throttle back to around 12" MP, which will pull the prop out of the governing range. Since the MP gauge gets fairly inaccurate that low, I go for 2000 RPM. At that point, I put the prop knob in. When I roll into the base turn, I add in the first notch of flaps, which will help me around the turn with no back pressure on the yoke needed, and will slow the plane a bit. Turning final, I'll put all the rest of the flaps in (40º on our bird), which will again help the plane around the turn with no extra back pressure, and will slow me to my final approach speed of 80 mph (69 knots) - Again, with no change in trim. That's how I land.

So - One power setting (12"/2000) from the descent from TPA onward; one trim setting from the level-off at TPA. The only thing that changes is the flaps, and by using them to help you around the turns, you'll find that you hardly need to do anything with the yoke for pitch.

After well over 400 hours of 182 flying, that's as finessed as I think I can get it. You've flown in N271G with me, I hope you think the same. Obviously if you're flying a 182S or 182T things will be different due to the different engine and the lack of the 40º flap setting, but I would imagine that a slightly lower power setting - 1700-1800 RPM, for example - would work just fine. Try flying level at 16"/2200, trim for hands-off level flight and see what speed you get. Then, pull off about 4" MP to start with, and make very slight power adjustments to find a nice 500 fpm descent, and use that as your final descent setting. You *might* need a hair of nose up trim on final due to the lesser flap extension.

FWIW, I do NOT land the 182 with 20º flaps or change trim in the flare, as I've seen suggested. It may be easier, but IMO it's also a cop-out, and wrong. The 182 is a heavier bird than the 172 and it is more difficult to land, but IMO it should be learned right - You'll get a lot more out of it that way. You'll probably also find that if you leave it trimmed for 80 mph/70 knots or so that you'll be flying on final, you're already trimmed for takeoff too.

And on technique... when you add rudder trim into the equation, like the 182 has, do you adjust one before the other (elevator trim before rudder, or vice versa), or does it not matter. Assume you're leveling at cruise... what order do you use to get things trimmed out? My intuition is saying it wouldn't matter. Get wings level, ball centered, speed stabilized, then trim away pressures in feet and yoke.

When leveling off at cruise, I push on the yoke to begin the level-off and *immediately* give it a swipe or two of nose-down trim. The 182 is very heavy in the pitch axis and has lots of power so it's difficult to level off otherwise. The rudder trim won't be noticeable nearly as quickly. So, usually what I do when leveling out is push, a couple swipes of nose-down trim, and a swipe of left rudder trim. That'll get it stable enough that I can check off the next couple of items on the cruise checklist while it accelerates, and then generally I'll be giving it another swipe down and another swipe left. (My cruise checklist, works for most planes: Trim, time, lights, pump, power, mixture, compass, cowl flaps.)

BTW, WRT rudder trim: I set it for takeoff, I set it again for cruise, that's pretty much it. In a normal descent the cruise setting for rudder trim works fine.

Hope this helps!

 

[denverpilot]

I know this is a "basic" topic, but let's talk about how best to trim an airplane to fly it more efficiently and with less pilot workload. I know I could do better at it.

Chainsaw is the most efficient. If you don't keep those airplanes trimmed, they'll take over the whole yard too.

 

[denverpilot]

Sorry, got distracted there. Real answer for our 182 is "Ditto Ken" with the following differences...

- My MP almost never goes above 24" unless it's so cold my teeth are chattering and I can't read the MP gauge anyway ... bwahaha... (God I hate you people that actually know what FULL power is like...) Okay I'm being a little dramatic, but damn it...

- Because of the steeper approach angle, I'm almost always completely out of up-trim and can't add any more even if I wanted to. It works out pretty well in our airplane. You do have to be ready to push forward heavily if you initiate a go-around, though.

- I must approach tighter/steeper than Kent because I shoot for 1800 RPM with Flaps 40. I'm also usually shooting for 65 knots on final, and slowing to 55 knots over the fence because of the STOL kit. If it don't I'll float halfway to the next State.

- I do sometimes play with Flaps 20, but.. it's not really a cop-out in our airplane. The ailerons droop 20 also at that setting, so it's really just a giant full-chord 20 degree flap. It makes for one of the nicest but still slow landings you can do in our airplane. Very consistently.

- But when I want to plant the airplane on a specific spot, getting the flaps out to 40 where the ailerons come back UP to about 5 degrees, gives better roll control doing a "drag it to the spot and chop" type "we must land exactly... chop... here" arrival. If you let it slow up to about 45 and get the stall horn chirping with power on, and fly right to the spot and chop, it's done flying. Kinda fun, but if you misjudge it and you're a couple feet higher than you thought you were, it's a thump and kinda hard on our nice ol' bird.

- I seem to have to modify the above steep/tight approaches with SOME pilots/instructors/whoever because they believe the FAA's recent harping on stabilized approaches means flying a 4 mile final at cruise power and anything steeper or more power-off is not "stabilized" even though the aircraft will happily come down at 800 fpm like that all frakkin' day long, just fine, and not "de-stabilize" itself at all, without a retarded pilot's input.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

- Because of the steeper approach angle, I'm almost always completely out of up-trim and can't add any more even if I wanted to. It works out pretty well in our airplane. You do have to be ready to push forward heavily if you initiate a go-around, though.

- I must approach tighter/steeper than Kent because I shoot for 1800 RPM with Flaps 40.

Tighter/steeper? I'm guessing not - Just slower, 'cuz you have the STOL kit.

- I do sometimes play with Flaps 20, but.. it's not really a cop-out in our airplane. The ailerons droop 20 also at that setting, so it's really just a giant full-chord 20 degree flap. It makes for one of the nicest but still slow landings you can do in our airplane. Very consistently.

In your airplane, I'd agree. Most of us aren't lucky enough to have an R/STOL airplane.

I looked at a Twinkie that had R/STOL and speed brakes. That is most definitely a bird you'd do better landing with 20º flaps 'cuz you can go super-slow with the flaperons down too.

 

[denverpilot]

Tighter/steeper? I'm guessing not - Just slower, 'cuz you have the STOL kit.

I have a teensy bit more drag, since there's some from the ailerons that are still slightly drooped, and there some parasitic stuff from the fences on top.

(I also lose at least 5 knots in cruise over the same Skylane... thus, the trade-off and why my co-owners want to leave the wheel pants on such a great back-country bird. )

 

[flyingcheesehead]

(I also lose at least 5 knots in cruise over the same Skylane... thus, the trade-off and why my co-owners want to leave the wheel pants on such a great back-country bird. )

Huh. What do you normally true out at?

The Twinkie R/STOL supposedly doesn't slow it down at all - But that's due to a Comanche quirk. Apparently Robertson discovered during the development process that the Comanches' ailerons are just about stalled during cruise (which makes no sense to me, but then I'm just a lowly pilot...). So, as part of the mod on the Comanches the ailerons are reflexed a few degrees which reduces drag enough that the extra bits and pieces don't make you any slower.

At least in theory. I'd sure love to try one in real operation.

 

[denverpilot]

Usually see 125 on the groundspeed consistently up here.

(Yeah I know you asked for TAS, but I'm going to be one of those lazy cool kids who plays too much with Foreflight, and has the groundspeed from the GPS memorized because I'm always willing it to go 5 knots faster.)

When I get lower, like comin' out to see you in a week or so (GRIN!), it goes faster 'cause we burn a lot more gas then.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Usually see 125 on the groundspeed consistently up here.

Average groundspeed on the GPS in N271G is 119 knots, even though we true at 133 - Climbs are slower, and of course if there's any wind at all, it's more likely to have a headwind component than a tailwind component. (Not even a joke, sadly - 'tis true, folks!)

So, if you really average 125 GS, you're not really THAT slow.

 

[Henning]

As I start to reach my altitude, I set my cruise power, push the nose over, rough trim, and start slowly trimming the nose down as the plane accelerates. when it stops accelerating, I quit trimming. The G-500 has a little pink predictor on the airspeed that lets you know if your speed is changing that makes it really simple.

 

[Fearless Tower]

As I start to reach my altitude, I set my cruise power, push the nose over, rough trim, and start slowly trimming the nose down as the plane accelerates. when it stops accelerating, I quit trimming.

For some reason I thought you would have been a step-down kind of guy....overshoot the altitude a bit and then settle into it.

 

[Clark1961]

Average groundspeed on the GPS in N271G is 119 knots, even though we true at 133 - Climbs are slower, and of course if there's any wind at all, it's more likely to have a headwind component than a tailwind component. (Not even a joke, sadly - 'tis true, folks!)

So, if you really average 125 GS, you're not really THAT slow.

And my Dakota is faster than both of you... (back to the 172 vs Cherokee thread) ...the truth always comes out

On trimming, on pitch trim I just give it what I think it needs and after 300 hours in the aircraft the "think" portion is usually about right. If I'm lazy then I just flip on the autopilot and let the auto-trim do the job.

On rudder trim, just step on the ball 'till it's level and then turn the screw 'till it gets the first bit of tightness. That's all it takes to adjust rudder trim for cruise or climb. Those are the only two times I generally adjust. Sometimes on descent, I'll adjust but only if I run out of things to do.

I do some long climbs in the turbo Dakota so rudder trim does save the right leg a fair bit of stress.

 

[Henning]

For some reason I thought you would have been a step-down kind of guy....overshoot the altitude a bit and then settle into it.

Sometimes, doesn't make much difference. I've experimented with the "step" stuff. The only time it pays to do the"settle in" is when you are going to operate near the top of your service ceiling. Other than that, it only saves you a few seconds of acceleration time. I still end up at the same cruise speed in the 7500'-10,500' range I typically operate in.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

And my Dakota is faster than both of you... (back to the 172 vs Cherokee thread) ...the truth always comes out

You're cheating, turbo boy.

 

[silver-eagle]

Set pitch and speed. Trim as needed. If I can fly hands off, so much the better. In the pattern, set for 90 knots. Makes T&Gs easy. And its easy over the fence.
Warrior II.

 

[Clark1961]

You're cheating, turbo boy.

If'n ya ain't cheatin', ya ain't tryin'!

Anyway, I can comfortably operate anywhere from 8.5 to 12 GPH which gives a range of 125 to 140 kts TAS at my typical altitudes.

Ya know the TSIO-360 has a bit of a bad rep but right now I'm loving it. It has about 900 on it so I may start hating it when I have to drop 10 or 15k on the top end...

 

[bob_albertson]

If you are privy to electric trim, please do not be one of those who trims the plane nose up during the flare... Two problems with that.... 1) It is a poor technique used to cover a lack of smooth imputs.... 2) At most airports there is nothing that prevents you from excecuting a missed approach after you touch down. If at any point you execute a missed approach (Visual) you will be in a world of hurt as you try to multi task your way out of a go-around with wild nose up trim.

Mechanical trim is a little easier to manage, but still.... my whole point of this post is that you can over use the trim. Good things come in small packages, and that is how I think trim should be utalized. Trim out the little things that make you work harder than you have too, but don't use it to the point that you may find yourself in a pickle.

 

[nosehair]

We're all taught "trim away the pressure you're having to hold". The missing part of that statement is "the pressure you're having to hold to maintain a specific desired pitch or speed." Once you've got that nailed down, then you can trim away the forces you're having to hold.

Ever use 'lectric trim?
It makes it easy to trim as you pitch. Matter of fact, for normal planned-ahead level-offs, trimming the nose to the new attitude is much more precise. (and easy)
I do that now, with manual trim. Except for go-arounds, the flare, and unexpected, or unplanned pitch changes, use the trim only.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Sometimes, doesn't make much difference. I've experimented with the "step" stuff. The only time it pays to do the"settle in" is when you are going to operate near the top of your service ceiling. Other than that, it only saves you a few seconds of acceleration time. I still end up at the same cruise speed in the 7500'-10,500' range I typically operate in.

Yeah, not much use these days - I was teasing you since you have flown a few older types. Back in the 40's and 50's the overshoot and settle in was fairly SOP.

 

[Fearless Tower]

If you are privy to electric trim, please do not be one of those who trims the plane nose up during the flare

No kidding - my first MEI in the Twin Comanche actually taught me that technique of using the electric trim in the flare. After a few hours, he left the school for a job at a regional. First time I flew with my new instructor and tried that he was like 'what the hell are you doing???'

Let's just say I learned how to properly land a Twinkie w/o needing to mess with the trim.

 

[PilotAlan]

For some reason I thought you would have been a step-down kind of guy....overshoot the altitude a bit and then settle into it.

I actually do that regularly. Minimum number of trim changes, a Cherokee is not exactly overpowered, it helps to descend 40-50 feet and get close to cruise speed, then trim out the forces.

 

[taters]

In most Cessna's grabbing the bottom of the trim wheel (which is really only half of the wheel) and putting at the top will put you very close to cruise trim...just remember to do this after accelerating to Cruise speed, set power, stabilize speed, then set trim.

 

[taters]

No kidding - my first MEI in the Twin Comanche actually taught me that technique of using the electric trim in the flare. After a few hours, he left the school for a job at a regional. First time I flew with my new instructor and tried that he was like 'what the hell are you doing???'

Let's just say I learned how to properly land a Twinkie w/o needing to mess with the trim.

I had a First Offier trainee do that the other day..needless to say he had a surprise waiting for him when I called his go around 15 feet above the RW.

 

[Jaybird180]

If you are privy to electric trim, please do not be one of those who trims the plane nose up during the flare... Two problems with that.... 1) It is a poor technique used to cover a lack of smooth imputs.... 2) At most airports there is nothing that prevents you from excecuting a missed approach after you touch down. If at any point you execute a missed approach (Visual) you will be in a world of hurt as you try to multi task your way out of a go-around with wild nose up trim.

Mechanical trim is a little easier to manage, but still.... my whole point of this post is that you can over use the trim. Good things come in small packages, and that is how I think trim should be utalized. Trim out the little things that make you work harder than you have too, but don't use it to the point that you may find yourself in a pickle.

Can someone elaborate on what happens in the above scenario?

 

[denverpilot]

Can someone elaborate on what happens in the above scenario?

They're saying some folk continue the nose-up trim rolling all the way up in the flare since they don't have to reach for the mechanical trim wheel. It's "easier".

Problem is, once you have it full nose-up and apply power for a go-around... guess where the nose is going if you don't SHOVE forward on the yoke real hard?

 

[Jaybird180]

Nate, Since your awake at this ungodly hour, please see my other thread to continue this discussion.

 

[denverpilot]

Nate, Since your awake at this ungodly hour, please see my other thread to continue this discussion.

It's only 23:00 here. Already done.

 

[Jaybird180]

No, the other one LOL

 

[dmccormack]

Lots of text here and I skimmed though most of it..

My .0002 C:

I work the trim with three different approaches: Gross, Moderate, and Fine.

If I'm doing super tight pattern in the Chief, for example, I just reach up and crank, crank, crank until it stops, then manage airspeed and attitude until she stabilizes about 57-63 MPH.

Once everything's all nice and stable, I might adjust a bit more until I see 60 MPH mostly.

I don't use "fine" trim in the pattern. Why? I'm not there that long.



When flying a larger bird and transitioning from climb to cruise, power stays in as nose is pushed forward until airspeed begins picking up. Gross trim to relieve most pressure.

Once we're about right, power adjusted, re-trim, wait for it to settle, then re-trim (moderate trim).

Hold the yoke with two fingers until I can feel the slightest pressures -- re-trim (fine).

Hands off the yoke (unless in rough air) and pressure & trim until VSI is 0 and altimeter is nailed.

Expect to re-adjust every 5 minutes as fuel burns.

Using this method I find is better at holding altitude than any A/P I've flown.

 

[poadeleted20]

Can someone elaborate on what happens in the above scenario?

The nose pitches up a lot when you add full power, and it takes a lot of forward stick force to keep it from pitching too far past the proper go-around/climb attitude.

 

[Dan Thomas]

The nose pitches up a lot when you add full power, and it takes a lot of forward stick force to keep it from pitching too far past the proper go-around/climb attitude.

In the 185 it can get deadly. You have one hand shoving as hard as you can on the yoke, the other on the flap lever bleeding the flaps off (which makes the 185's nose want to rise more) and only then can you run the trim down. Smaller, low-powered airplanes don't prepare a pilot for the unexpected forces of larger or more powerful airplanes.

Dan

 

[Henning]

They're saying some folk continue the nose-up trim rolling all the way up in the flare since they don't have to reach for the mechanical trim wheel. It's "easier".

Problem is, once you have it full nose-up and apply power for a go-around... guess where the nose is going if you don't SHOVE forward on the yoke real hard?

Here's why that is pretty much a non issue. By the time you're rolling in full trim, you are already IN THE FLARE. By the time most people are flying planes that have electric trim, they aren't typically doing "go arounds" from that point in the landing phase, they would have already gone around. By the time I'm rolling in the trim in the flare, I am committed to landing, there will be no "go around" involved. As far as trim before the flare, I have never been in a situation where I was trimmed to come down final hands off at the planes appropriate 1.2-1.3 V speed, regardless the configuration of flaps or whatever, where when I went Maximum T/O Power did I ever feel even remotely in a bind for control-ability except for the Bull Thrush when it was light because it had over twice the power and torque the airframe was designed for. The issue there though was not one of stalling, but one of rudder effectiveness and torque roll. My first take off in it was scary and at the edge of control just by advancing the throttle too quickly and not holding the stick back for tailwheel resistance as I hit it. You couldn't do a full power stall in it light airplane because it would roll over down around 75.

Trimming all the way through the flare to touch down a technique I use as well, and in the Comanche is the one that gets me the best results. The times I trim my way all the way to touch down in the Comanche have been the times I've just slicked it right in, and that's not particularly easy to accomplish with a Comanche. That's why they became the "poor man's Bonanza", if you can't afford to look good doing it at least you can still get the same job done.... Al Mooney wasn't worried about making pilots look good, Walter Beech was.

 

[p1l0t]

Once your trimmed for a good approach speed just leave it. You don't want to fly the airplane with the trim. Just pull back to flare. Don't put yourself in a situation where if you go-around its going to be dangerous. You shouldn't be committed to land in the flare.. Supposed you bounce (on the mains or the nose) or anything else goes wrong - gust of wind - whatever. Now your either going to add full-power with full noseup trim (practice that at altitude and let me know how it goes).. or ride out the bad landing likely leading damaging the aircraft.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[dmccormack]

Once your trimmed for a good approach speed just leave it. You don't want to fly the airplane with the trim. Just pull back to flare. Don't put yourself in a situation where if you go-around its going to be dangerous. You shouldn't be committed to land in the flare.. Supposed you bounce (on the mains or the nose) or anything else goes wrong - gust of wind - whatever. Now your either going to add full-power with full noseup trim (practice that at altitude and let me know how it goes).. or ride out the bad landing likely leading damaging the aircraft.

If we are talking about SEL airplanes, you should be able to apply enough pressure on the yoke until you can adjust trim.

So the go-around technique would be:

1. Full power -- push yoke forward
2. Confirm airspeed -- maintain push
3. Release flaps to 20 degrees -- still pushing
4. Confirm airspeed then reach for trim and apply two big turns to relieve most pressure
5. Confirm positive rate of climb, then release flaps (10 or 20)
6. Re-trim

Here's my theory -- full flaps and full nose up trim places me in the best condition for landing -- low energy, low effort.

If something interrupts that process -- say a wildebeest on the turf -- I commence plan B (a go-around) and apply the best condition for takeoff.

I don't like preparing for one by reducing the commitment to the other -- too complicated.

 

[p1l0t]

I think maybe you guys need to workout more. If your trimming full nose up because you can't flare without it, what makes you think you are strong enough to prevent a trim stall when you firewall the throttle? Maybe depends on the airplane... but no matter what plan A should be to go-around. Sure most of the time we land with no issue, but should ALWAYS be ready for a safe go-around. The only time your committed to land is when your too far down the runway to clear the obsticle which means you already made a series of bad decisions beforehand.. (or 1500ft runway or something)

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[TMetzinger]

While I can muscle a 182 at the forward edge of the CG envelope into the flare, a little (nowhere NEAR full-up) trim makes it easier, and still not difficult in a go-around.

I've seen a lot of "it's always THIS way" in this thread, and in my opinion the only universal truth when it comes to flying airplanes is "It all depends."

Context is important.

 

[jesse]

While I can muscle a 182 at the forward edge of the CG envelope into the flare, a little (nowhere NEAR full-up) trim makes it easier, and still not difficult in a go-around.

I've never taken off in a 182 by myself - and I've never landed one with a person in it. The beauty of flying jumpers.

 

[denverpilot]

I've never taken off in a 182 by myself - and I've never landed one with a person in it. The beauty of flying jumpers.

Cool CG shift.

Talked to a guy once who said he got a bit too slow with jumpers hanging from the right wing strut and standing on the right landing gear in a 182 before jumping off.

He said he was running out of rudder and airspeed until they got off, or as he said with a wink, as he kinda made them get off... I didn't ask him to elaborate.

They ever do that to ya, J? Draggy, those meat bombs are, until you can shake 'em off the hard points?

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Cool CG shift.

Talked to a guy once who said he got a bit too slow with jumpers hanging from the right wing strut and standing on the right landing gear in a 182 before jumping off.

He said he was running out of rudder and airspeed until they got off, or as he said with a wink, as he kinda made them get off... I didn't ask him to elaborate.

They ever do that to ya, J? Draggy, those meat bombs are, until you can shake 'em off the hard points?

Meat bombs?